Advanced Cycle Lane Box Removed Grove Tavern

[hertburs]

Following the recent resurfacing of The South Circular / Lordship Lane, the advanced cycle Lane Box at The Grove Tavern heading towards East Dulwich from Forest Hill has been removed. Can TFL just do this without consultation at this already very dangerous junction or is it just a mistake when the road was remarked?

[James Barber]

No, I don't believe they can.

I've just reported this problem to TfL.

[hertburs]

James. Thank you for your help with this. It is truly frightening for cyclists heading down Lordship Lane towards East Dulwich. They are now pushed into the left hand lane and are forced to proceed in front of all the cars and lorries turning left onto the South Circular at Dulwich Common. A recipe for disaster!

[James Barber]

Hi herburs,

This is the TfL response I've had. Can you take a photo of ASL missing and email it to me at cllrjamesbarber@gmail.com please?

Hello Councillor James

Roadworks problem 2214861

This is an automated email to update you on the current status of the above case:

Investigation completed

Dear Councillor James Barber

Case No 2214861

South Circular with the junction of Lordship Lane.

Thank you for your recent Report-It and comments regarding the cycle advanced stop line not being reinstated at the above location after recent resurfacing works.

From our investigations, the Scheme Engineer has since confirm that we have put back exactly what was there before, you can check and view the location via Google?s Street View. We can confirm that there a cycle advanced stop line in place at Dulwich Common.

Yours sincerely,

Transport for London ' Report a Roadwork?s Team.

[ruffers]

It looks like there was an incomplete box there before ie missing the picture of a bike.

[hertburs]

James

Ruffers is absolutely right there was a green cycle box with a lead in lane from the left hand kerb.This is clearly shown on Street view. There is now nothing at all. I will take a photograph in the morning and post it for you. The Scheme Engineer is demonstrably wrong.

[James Barber]

Hi suffers or heartburn,

Could one of you take picture of what is there now please?

I could but it would be the weekend before I get around to it.

[ruffers]

Suffers? I've heard worse..

I will try, although I think the engineer may still say he is right as the old scheme wasn't a complete box. Broken down all there was was a stop line with some green after it, with no cycle symbol and no further stop line. He's essentially just replicated the incompleteness give or take a patch of green paint which I imagine carries no significance in the highway code without accompanying pictures or symbols and white lines.

Having said that there is also the lead in line which they ignored completely...

[fruityloops]

It's not a nice junction to cycle through in any case when going straight on, under old system or new.

[hertburs]

James. As requested I have attached a photo of the new road markings. As can be seen the pre existing green box and lead lane has completely disappeared. In contrast the green box heading in the opposite direction from Dulwich Common towards Forest Hill has been replaced.

[ruffers]

See attached -

- which shows the one heading from Dulwich Common referred to above.

Looks like the difference is that one was done properly in the first place ie complete box with cycle symbol and has been recreated. Fairly sure that's what the engineer will say.

Edited for clarity.

[hertburs]

Except that it hasn't been recreated has it? Before there was something now there is nothing. Not a lot of consolation if you are heading down Lordship Lane and get hit by left turning truck or car.

[ruffers]

Sorry, I wasn't clear. All I am saying is there was not a proper box in place before coming down the hill - no border and no symbol. So I am predicting the engineer will say in a very "following orders" kind of way there wasn't a valid box to recreate, so he didn't. The comparison being with coming from the direction of the Common where it was a complete marking which has been recreated.

[hertburs]

Interestingly, absolutely every junction on on this stretch of th South Circular has an advanced cycle box. Why would this particular junction be any different?

[ruffers]

I imagine cock up more than conspiracy tbh. It looks like they started (in green) and just didn't finish (the lines and symbol)

Must have been a Friday.

[James Barber]

The photo s of the nor bound lane on Lordship Lane on the south side of the junction.

The Streetview link is of the eastbound lane of Dulwich Common.

But I fished around and found this - https://goo.gl/maps/7tXGrGmz4kL2 phew.

I've alerted TfL and now hope they'll understand 1+1 = 2 !!!

Fingers crossed.

[pipsky2008]

James Barber Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> The photo s of the nor bound lane on Lordship Lane

> on the south side of the junction.

> The Streetview link is of the eastbound lane of

> Dulwich Common.

> But I fished around and found this -

> https://goo.gl/maps/7tXGrGmz4kL2 phew.

> I've alerted TfL and now hope they'll understand

> 1+1 = 2 !!!

> Fingers crossed.

Well spotted

[Townleygreen]

good work James!

[ruffers]

James

As far as I can see your pic is the same as the one I originally linked to which we have been discussing in the thread. There is no cycle symbol and no white line. On my ride to work today I checked, all cycle markings on the road have the symbol and this one didn't, hence my theory it wasn't replaced as it wasn't complete in the first place.

[James Barber]

Hi Ruffers,

The previous partial advanced stop line had green tarmac for a feeder lane to the ASL, it had green tarmac in front of the vehicle stop line. But it didn't have a logo or its own stop line. It was more ASL than not ASL.

Removing an ASL would have required a Traffic Management Order.

Either way a facility, even if partial, has been removed and either needs to be fully restored or explained why it has been removed and under what TMO.

[hertburs]

James. Have you had any further reply from TFL about what they propose to do about rectifying this omission?

[James Barber]

Sadly not yet.

[Burbage]

James Barber Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Sadly not yet.

And nor should you expect to, now that the mayor's changed. When that happens (and sometimes when it doesn't), TfL tneds to box everything up, label it 'legacy' and chuck it in a cellar. They'll now be preparing for a new strategy, budget and priorities, and everything will be put back to square one.

It's bad enough for things like this, but they've pulled this trick, at least twice now, to delay upgrading pedestrian facilities at some 1,000+ junctions of concern around London. In each of those cases, they've started with five- or six-year plans (one can only assume they deliberately choose timescales beyond those of the mayoralty) which have all been allegedly scuppered by new budgets and priorities, and had to be started again. As far as I know, they have never got beyond appointing a team to decide what priority the assessment of each junction should have, which should tell you everything you need to know about their attitude to safety - assuming their poster campaign, which starts and finishes at blaming the dead guy, hadn't told you enough already.

If you really want something done, then you'll have to put in a new complaint. Preferably in the form of a physical letter, and preferably copied in to a couple of their legal folk as well, who might understand how bad it would look, and how expensive it might be, if a cyclist expecting an ASL at that junction were to find there suddenly wasn't one.

[hertburs]

This is extremely disturbing however this is not new work just the reinstatement of what was there previously before the resurfacing. Surely this is a matter for the contractor to correct at their cost.

[hertburs]

James. 10 days ago you said that you had still not heard anything back from TFL about the reinstatement of the Advanced Cycle Box at this very dangerous junction. Have you heard anything further yet? Everyday I watch cyclists heading down Lordship Lane trying to find a place where they can get through this junction safely. At the moment there is just nowhere to go. This can't be right! There will be an accident very soon.