Big Issue sellers in ED

[Jeremy]

There is some ill-informed and prejudiced stuff on this thread.

However - people have the right to question what charitable donations are being spent on.

[Huggers]

Jeremy- they are not charitable donations. You are buying a product (the big issue) and they are selling it.

[SeanMacGabhann]

Is it a charitable donation Jeremy? - as has been pointed out you are paying money for a product. Yuo aren't forced to

If I ever find myself selling Big Issues on LL, I don't know how to break this to people, but chances are I'll be using some of that money for some alcohol and drugs - it'll make life that bit easier y'see.

If you are "giving" money to people, ask yourself what are you doing it for? Is it to salve your own conscience or is it to help the person you are giving it to. Because if it's the latter you are in no position to judge them on what makes their life better

The amount of well-to-do people who scream blue murder when petrol-duty is raised, or inheritance tax changes mooted - I'll just tell them if it's going to financially trouble them maybe they should spend their incomes a little more wisely in future

[Jeremy]

Huggers, SMG... I disagree strongly.

Helping the homeless is the big issue's raison d'etre. According to the website:

"The Big Issue Foundation is a registered charity", and "exists to offer homeless and vulnerably housed people the opportunity to earn a legitimate income".

People don't generally buy it for the content. They buy it in good faith that the money is helping out someone in need.

[Bellenden Belle]

Jeremy Wrote:

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>

> "The Big Issue Foundation is a registered

> charity", and "exists to offer homeless and

> vulnerably housed people the opportunity to earn a

> legitimate income".

>

> People don't generally buy it for the content.

> They buy it in good faith that the money is

> helping out someone in need.

Firstly - many organisations are registered charities, which also have earned income streams and are seen as businesses above all else - albeit non profit-making ones. Think private schools, theatres and churches for example.

And actually if you're buying the Big Issue then you absolutely should think about it in terms of buying a product. That's part of the ethos too - that people are no longer begging or asking for charity; instead they are putting in a day's work (albeit for a pitiful salary) and asking you to support them by making a purchase. By viewing it as a commercial transaction, you are actually giving that person some dignity. And yes, since they'v earned that money - they can spend it any way they like.

There are plenty of homeless charities out there if you want to make a donation Jeremy.

[Huggers]

Private schools have charitable status, but giving them your money is not a donation- its a fee.

[Bellenden Belle]

Huggers Wrote:

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> Private schools have charitable status, but giving

> them your money is not a donation- its a fee.

Yes - that was exactly my point. Charitable status does not mean that every transaction is a donation. In exactly the same way that buying the Big Issue is a purchase not a donation.

[deargod]

I've been a reader of the ED forum for years, but this is the first thread that's driven me to register and comment.

Jeremy, perhaps you missed this bit on the website:

The organisation is made up of two parts; a limited company which produces and distributes a magazine to a network of street vendors, and a registered charity which exists to help those vendors gain control of their lives by addressing the issues which have contributed to their homelessness.

It's people like some of you lot that made me move to Nunhead...!

And now I'm going back to reading in outraged silence.

[Manda]

Buy it or don't buy it - that's your choice

What isn't your choice is how the seller then gets to spend that money...

You can't have it all your way.

Who in their right mind would pose as a homeless person/Big Issue seller if they didn't need to? They don't all conform to the Disney ideal of homeless people, (doffs cap and says thank you Guv'. Maybe we should start providing PR training to our homeless? "how to make the most of your homeless status and not alienate your public".. blimey you lot!

[Keef]

In exactly the same way that buying the Big Issue is a purchase not a donation.

I see (and want to agree with) your point.

However, I used to buy the BI a lot, and it was always a really crap mag, so I got to the point where I'd bin it without even opening it. Now I'll just give them the cash and tell them to keep the mag. I'd never give a newsagent cash without taking my paper, but I do with BI vendors, because basically I look at it as a charitable donation.

[deargod]

In which case Keef, donate to the charity, not to the Big Issue seller. It's really not that complicated.

[DrDom]

By viewing it as a commercial transaction, you are actually giving that person some dignity. And yes, since they'v earned that money - they can spend it any way they like.

like Saving up for a ticket back to Romania?

[Keef]

deargod Wrote:

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> In which case Keef, donate to the charity, not to

> the Big Issue seller. It's really not that

> complicated.

I never said it was complicated, I also never said I wanted to donate to the charity, but thanks for your helpful response.

I just made the point that a lot of people, when buying a BI (whether or not they keep the mag) do so, feeling like they are making a charitible donation. It is not like buying a paper from a street vendor.

Great thread, load of prejudice nonsense, mixed in with a load of self rightious crap. Basically, 2 of the more annoying sides of ED laid out for everyone to see.

[SeanMacGabhann]

Not a little "self-righteous" yourself there keef

So, given people are spouting a lot of prejudice at the start of the thread, how should it be countered so as best to avoid being called self-righteous?

[londonloves]

Crikey-I have to agree with the Daily Hate comments! Huggers-thank god someone on here gets it!(and a couple of others too)

I had no idea when I started this thread that most people didn't know what the big issue was about and what "homeless" means-I really would urge people to check out their website.

I don't have any problem with what people spend their wages on-pampers,mars bars,fags and mobiles-fine-Guess what I spend a large proportion of my wage on booze and take aways-does that make me a bad person?(and their not even organic!) Big Issue vendors are earning a wage NOT living on charity-they are not allowed to beg for food or cash-and if you meet a vendor that does this pleas report them as they will not be genuine! My issue is are the ones outside somerfield genuine-its looking like the answer is no-but Big Issue haven't replied to my email-I was kinda hoping some forumites might email too?-That way somone else might be able to have that pitch-or if its not a real pitch then a pitch elsewhere in ED-

A final thought for the ED crowd-think of the Big Issue as a fairtraid magazine-does that make you any more inclined towards it?;-) I thought we were meant to like small/independant traders in ED!

[Keef]

Not a little "self-righteous" yourself there keef

I wouldn't have said so, no. But to be fair, self rightrous people probably don't really know they're being self righteous, so maybe.

So, given people are spouting a lot of prejudice at the start of the thread, how should it be countered so as best to avoid being called self-righteous?

It's all in the tone.

To stay on topic, I agree with londonloves above post. However, whilst I agree that BI vendors are earning a wage (and can certainly spend it on whatever they want), I still hold that most people, when buying a BI, will not be doing it because they really must read that article, but rather, because they think it's doing something good to help someone. If that is just to make them feel better about themselves, who cares?

[SeanMacGabhann]

I'd agree with almost everything you say there keef, but the question at the end "who cares" would appear to be the people who give the money. Enough of them care to feel they can tell the person they are giving the money to how to spend it. That seems out of order to me

[Jeremy]

Basically... Big Issue exists (as it states on it's website) to help people out.

It's not a great mag, not many people would buy it on merit alone, if it wasn't for a good cause. People buy it with the understanding that the money is going to somebody who needs it, so it is important that this trust is not abused.

Sorry if pointing out the facts annoys people.

If this makes you want to move to Nunhead, be my fucking guest.

[SeanMacGabhann]

But how is the trust being abused?

[DrDom]

Send thee to a nunhead...

[Huggers]

the trust would be abused if the job was being abused, not if the earnings were.

If I am a surgeon and I operate drunk I am abusing my position.

If I operate sober, but then go home and spend my vast salary on a bottle of cliquo de splendido, to enjoy in my lesiure, that is up to me.

[Jeremy]

SeanMacGabhann Wrote:

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> But how is the trust being abused?

I'm not saying it is. I'm saying if someone was selling it who was not genuinely in need, then they would be abusing the trust.

Hence my original statement that people have the right to question what the money is going to.

[david_carnell]

But Jeremy, what you're implicitly saying is that once you have made the purchase there is some moral framework that has to be adhered to by the vendor in what they spend their money on? That's a very difficult logical line to take:

Lager - ok, as long as it's no more than two cans night and not the special brew stuff.

Drugs - no, but the odd cheeky spliff I'll turn a blind eye to.

Nappies - just make sure they're supermarket own brand or be damned.

If a mate comes to me and asks for a loan of ?100 because he's short at the end of the month I don't demand a spreadsheet of his accounts and want to know what he's spending it on.

You gives your money, you takes your choice.

If you give to Oxfam do you demand to know precisely what they've done with your ?20 or do you assume that in some small way your money is being used for a "good thing" and feel better about yourself.

[Keef]

If this makes you want to move to Nunhead, be my @#$%& guest.

That is the first thing that has made me genuinely "LOL" on here in ages!

Sean, I agree, that giving money, and feeling good about yourself for it, doesn't give you the right to then tell the person how they should use the money.

[Keef]

I don't think Jeremy has ever said that a person has a responsibility to spend their money in any particular way. All he's said, is that if someone is a bogus vendor, then that is out or order.