93-95 LL (Londis) extension and change of use

[JoeLeg]

Mick Mac Wrote:

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> I know a restaurant on LL that has overheads of

> ?20k per week and seeks to make 25k+ turnover per

> week to make a minimum 5k profit.

>

> Its good if you can manage that target - but the

> 20k of costs is a very big risk if it doesn't work

> out. its certainly not an easy option. don't get

> involved unless you are brave, know what you are

> doing and have deep pockets for the start up

> costs.

?5k per week? Is that a net or gross figure? Any place that can clear a net 25% profit margin week in week out knows something that a lot of others don't. Unless there are additional costs that come out of that 5 grand, I have to say I'm sceptical of that figure. But then I don't know exactly who it is. It's possible, but unusual. Most places aim for. 10-15% margin. If that's accurate, then congratulations.

[DulwichFox]

25% profit.. ? Yep .

I've said it before..

Restaurants are the way to go.. and why some of the new Venues only have to open a few days a week or when it suits them...

DulwichFox

[Mick Mac]

The one I'm referring to is open 7 days - why wouldn't it be - its doing well. The ones that don't open all days would I suggest be open if they had sufficient custom on those days - being closed on any day is not a good sign.

My post wasn't intended to show how well it was doing - but to reflect that ?20k of costs per week is a hell of a lot to clear before you are even profitable. its not an easy business model.

[JoeLeg]

DulwichFox Wrote:

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> 25% profit.. ? Yep .

>

> I've said it before..

> Restaurants are the way to go.. and why some of

> the new Venues only have to open a few days a week

> or when it suits them...

>

> DulwichFox

And I've said it before, you are clueless on this topic. You really, really don't know what you're talking about. If that figure is correct them they're doing a hell of a lot better than most other restaurants. Industry standard is a net profit of about 10-15%, as I said. You can clear 25%, but it's very hard.

[JoeLeg]

Mick Mac Wrote:

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>

> My post wasn't intended to show how well it was

> doing - but to reflect that ?20k of costs per week

> is a hell of a lot to clear before you are even

> profitable. its not an easy business model.

I understood your point, I'm just expressing surprise at the figures. They are highly unusual, but good luck to them if they can do it.

And as you say, most people have no comprehension of the costs involved, or how fast it can all collapse if you do t stay on top of it.

[Mick Mac]

JoeLeg Wrote:

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> Mick Mac Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

>

>

> I understood your point,

I know that - I was responding to Foxy

[DulwichFox]

Restaurants like Curry Cabin and other Curry Houses are not trying to make a killing over night.

They have been around giving contiual service day in day out for the last 40+ years..

Then there are the Pop-ups.. opening when they choose and sodding off when they realise that they will need to be around

for more than 6 months before seeking retirement in the sun and getting someone else to run the business for them why they sit back.

People willing to put in the work deserve to be successful.. Those seeking a quick buck will never succeed in business.

...and that's why so many of them fail.. and not so much down to high rents...

You have to be willing to start small and build up a business.

DulwichFox

[Jeremy]

I think pop-ups are usually about trying out ideas, dishes, menus, etc to see how they work, before moving onto a more permanent venture/site. I don't think they're usually about trying to make a quick buck.

I don't think curry houses are a great example of business acumen, as if these guys were brave enough to update their menus and cook food that was more interesting/authentic/regional/etc, instead of pastiching themselves for 40 years, then they could probably make a killing.

[JoeLeg]

My word Foxy...the sheer quantity of ignorance in that post makes it hard to know where to start...

...so I'm not going to bother. Except to say that you've completely misunderstood the nature of pop-ups and why people do them. I could explain it to you but you've already made up your mind, so I'm not going to waste my time.

"Retirement in the sun..." - oh you do make me chuckle...Do you actually, like, KNOW anyone in the industry? Ever spoken with the people who run restaurants or pop-ups? No? Didn't think so.

[Louisa]

I don't wish to step on anyone's toes here, but really JoeLeg you are rather patronising in your responses to others on this thread, and if you are trying to make a point it has escaped me.

Foxy is simply giving the thumbs up to businesses which have struggled and survived the longhaul in what is (as you rightly point out) a tough industry with many hidden costs. Many pop-up restaurants (not all), are simply fad bandwagon jumpers trying to make a fast buck out of a bunch of posh foody trendies in down at heel London neighborhoods. Half of these 'concept' ideas stuck in scruffy old VW camper vans, are not wanting to service the community and be around long term. They just want to make some money and run. That isn't what this industry should be about. I nod my hat to the likes of the various curry houses, kebab & wine, manzes who have been around for decades and continue to be successful at what they do.

Louisa.

[DulwichFox]

JoeLeg Wrote:

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> My word Foxy...the sheer quantity of ignorance in

> that post makes it hard to know where to start...

>

>

> ...so I'm not going to bother.

...so where exactly do you fit in on the restaurant scene.. Do you own/work in a local restaurant.

I'd love to pop along.

DulwichFox

DulwichFox

[DulwichFox]

Jeremy Wrote:

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> I think pop-ups are usually about trying out

> ideas, dishes, menus, etc to see how they work,

> before moving onto a more permanent venture/site.

> I don't think they're usually about trying to make

> a quick buck.

>

> I don't think curry houses are a great example of

> business acumen, as if these guys were brave

> enough to update their menus and cook food that

> was more interesting/authentic/regional/etc,

> instead of pastiching themselves for 40 years,

> then they could probably make a killing.

If you care to take a closer look at the local Asian restaurants you will find some now offer a much extended menu.

Having said that The Old Favourites are as popular as ever.. so why change.. Thursday- Saturday you often have to book.

If you want something different at twice the price go to Ganapatti.

I'm happy with whats available locally.

Dulwich Tandoori offers :-

25 Starters..

15 Tandoori Dishes...

23 House Specials...

15 Chef Specials...

19 Veggie Sides

As well as 30 variations of the Old Favorites

With the usual selection of Rice and Breads and sundries.

So what exactly are you looking for ?

Foxy

[Louisa]

Foxy don't bother trying to persuade them. They will find something negative about local long standing businesses at all costs! (Not aimed at Jez directly I hasten to add).

It seems the philosophy of the new intake ED is that, if it's old and been there forever knock it because it's not trendy or authentic enough (even though it's a successful indepedent and local institution). Even the posh newbie businesses promote the ventured which have come into the neighborhood in the last five years, almost as though ED before 2007 didn't exist. Yawn.

Louisa.

[LondonMix]

Nonsense- The Palmerston, Franklins, and Blue Mountain have been around forever and no one talks crap about them.

People just like what they like. There is no conspiracy behind it

Louisa Wrote:

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> Foxy don't bother trying to persuade them. They

> will find something negative about local long

> standing businesses at all costs! (Not aimed at

> Jez directly I hasten to add).

>

> It seems the philosophy of the new intake ED is

> that, if it's old and been there forever knock it

> because it's not trendy or authentic enough (even

> though it's a successful indepedent and local

> institution). Even the posh newbie businesses

> promote the ventured which have come into the

> neighborhood in the last five years, almost as

> though ED before 2007 didn't exist. Yawn.

>

> Louisa.

[tomskip]

I think I'll be a little bit sorry to see Londis (or 7:11 as I insist) go.

Was having a conversation with husband the other day about what business was in the Jolie A Pied shop before. We racked our poor old brains. I'll have to search out that thread about the changing face of LL.

[DovertheRoad]

Poor JoeLeg...the only one on this thread who knows his onions. Restaurants are a shed load of work with high risk and modest returns. Perhaps a minority of 5% that buck that trend...but they're not in East Dulwich.

[Jeremy]

Fox, I love a trad curry.. but my point was that as bsuinesses they are unambitious, and scared to move with the times.

But let's not kid ourselves that any business in ED - or anywhere - is a servant to the community.

[DulwichFox]

Jeremy Wrote:

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> Fox, I love a trad curry.. but my point was that

> as bsuinesses they are unambitious, and scared to

> move with the times.

>

> But let's not kid ourselves that any business in

> ED - or anywhere - is a servant to the community.

I have a brilliant Book Food Heritage of India: A Collection of Unusual Recipes from Every Corner of India

Vimla Patil

200+ Recipes from 11 regions of India..

https://books.google.co.uk/books/about/Food_Heritage_of_India.html?id=GQ9HAAAAYAAJ&redir_esc=y&hl=en

Move with the times..??? These are recipes handed down over decades..

Do you scrap them and sell Curry Burgers and Pizza ??

I dont understand your point. What would YOU like to see in our local curry houses ?

Foxy

[nxjen]

I would love to see some of these regional dishes listed in that book offered in the local curry houses but instead we get the fare that has been on offer since Indian restaurants became popular in the 1960s when traditional recipes were adapted to suit the British taste. For example, it's claimed that Chicken Tikka Masala, one of the most popular dishes served in Indian restaurants, was invented in Glasgow to satisfy the British craving for meat and gravy. I think the call today is for more authentic Indian cuisine.

[Jeremy]

Sorry Foxy... I don't understand YOUR point... at all. What has your recipe book got to with LL curry houses? You're not making sense. Why are you talking about "Curry Burgers and Pizza" when my suggestion was to "cook food that was more interesting/authentic/regional/etc"??

You've totally lost me.

[Jeremy]

Cross-posted with nxjen! There's definitely still a market for anglo-indian curry house food, it's a style in itself and I love it. But like you say... people also want to try something more authentic, a smaller menu of freshly cooked regional food. I don't understand why restaurant owner can't see this, particularly in somewhere like ED. I guess they're just playing it safe... which is fine... but let's not hold them up as examples of shining examples of success.

[DulwichFox]

I'm not trying to make a point...

But you said 'Keep up with the times..' and then suggest 'Authentic Reginal' recipes..

'Authentic Reginal' dishes are by definition old recipes going back decades..

You have lost ME.

Foxy

[HelBel65]

Jeremy's point is quite clear to me DF, and I agree - though I love all the predictable stuff found on LL too

http://www.indianfoodforever.com/regional-cooking.html

DulwichFox Wrote:

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> I'm not trying to make a point...

>

> But you said 'Keep up with the times..' and then

> suggest 'Authentic Reginal' recipes..

>

> 'Authentic Reginal' dishes are by definition old

> recipes going back decades..

>

> You have lost ME.

>

> Foxy

[LondonMix]

DF his point is keep up with the times by offering what people want now-- ie. something more authentic and regional than what LL curry houses provide.

I'm sure you get the point DF.

[Mick Mac]

Tandoori Nights and some other Indian restaurants on LL have their own regional specialities.

The traditional dishes, being madras, dupiaza, tikka masala etc are not their main fare, are listed separately, are cheaper and don't appear to be encouraged in many of these restaurants.

Having said that I started going to Tandoori Nights in 2001 - I like the green chlli handi dishes and their lamb is excellent - but its been the same menu I believe for 15 years now, familiar is good, but a little disappointing I guess, to never change.

Omrith does a fantastic sea bass starter. I think its wrong to say these restaurants are serving up the same fare as 40 years ago - I came to London in 1989 and the traditional dishes were all that was on offer then. Its changed a fair bit.

And I'd take Tandoori Nights over Ganapati any day. Just because its south indian doesn't make it better.