If I don't get some sleep, I may die...HELP!

[The Nappy Lady]

Ruth, something else I thought (though you post today sounds much brighter)....but if you are feeling REALLY down, and REALLY as if you may 'die' (not literally, but you know what I mean), please, please go and speak to your doctor because there is always the chance of it being a touch of Post Natal Depression, especially I think if you had a difficult birth and are trying to come to terms with that too.

It is something that I think can be very hard to admit to, but I think I had a touch of it briefly with No.2, or at least my family thought I had, but I refused to accept it. Now looking back there were a couple of months when I was insanely happy, yet also on my knees all at the same time. No idea how it is possible to feel that way, but no harm at all in speaking to a professional about it.

I just thought it is all very well us lot saying "oh it is normal, don't worry it WILL pass" but if you are feeling really desperate then PND should at least also be considered, and if it were that it too is normal, and nothing to be ashamed of.

I hope that meeting up with some other Mum's with babies of a similar age will help, I remember with DD1 feeling so lonely, walking around the park and seeing other Mum's sitting on the grass together and resolving that I HAD to go and be brave and make some friends, and once I did it made such a HUGE difference.

Something my friend and I are going to try soon is one of us staying at baby group with the 2 girls and the other going back to my house (very close by) for a big soaky bath / pamper session / book reading or whatever we feel like! I think this is something a couple of Mums could easily do for each other, and it would feel like a real luxury (I can't remember the last time I lay in a bath without a small child peering over the edge, talking to me, suggesting they take photos of me (my 5 year olds latest craze....arrrgggh no), or whatever.

Big hugs again, and ignore those comments about your age, only jealous - I would LOVE to be 24 with a baby, at 40 I am on my knees by 8am most days!

Molly

x

[sillywoman]

Very wise posts from Molly, and others. It sounds like you're going through the New Mum Hell that a lot of us have been through. Imagine us all beckoning you on to come through the other side!

Find some mates, baby groups are good; and can I just defend my NCT Mums here, most of my lovely Mums are just that - lovely, absolutely lovely & I consider myself fortunate to know them. I've only encountered one or two with leanings to competitiveness over the years, and for them it was mostly a way of covering up their own anxiety. Actually they were lovely too. It's not just NCT Mums who are competitive - can we please not link the two, because it's not FAAAAIR? (last sentence spoken as a toddler wail); Take Bumpy up on her offer& jhng out with her group of normal night wakers! The age thing is irrelevant, in fact as MOlly says - there are probably loads of Mums casting envious eyes your way.

Please ask to go through your notes form your birth with a midwife at Kings, it sounds like you may have something called PTSD - Post Traumatic Stress Disorder. It's increasingly recognised as common after a traumatic labour & birth, and manifests itself as overwhelming anxiety, sleeplessness, flashbacks and reliving the experience over & over. It's your brain trying to make sense of your experience. There are other symptoms too. If this sounds familiar to you then please google it. Sheila Kitzinger runs a telephone support line for woman who have this, called Birth Crisis, they may be some help. If you think "Nah, that's not me." then please follow up Molly's suggestion of possible PND, 20-25% of women get it, more common with those who feel lonely and unsupported.

Ruth B we're all rooting for you. you sound like you're a great Mum, and in a few months you'll feel quite different I'm sure.

Love SW.x

[Ruth_Baldock]

Molly; I do have PND, it was diagnosed very recently but I am not on any meds for it, as I had several bad experiences with various anti-depressents whilst at Uni :/

SW; My Mother thinks I have PTSD, as all I do is think/talk/cry over my son's birth- I was at Mum's this weekend and she said I kept staring into space and going quiet and she KNEW I was going over and over and over it. It's getting out of hand now and I think I WILL get my notes, I've had the form to give back to Kings College PALS for blooming ages now...I think I'll aim to have it all sent off by the end of this week. I will also look into the birth crisis helpline- I fear I have bored my friends and family senseless with it now...I agree that the majority of NCT Mums I have met have been absolutely lovely; it was just one or two that seemed to think parenting should be an olympic sport and that they were going for gold, but they are obviously not indicative of the NCT who I think are fantastic anyway- I've met up with a local group once or twice and they were all lovely, and no-one assumed I was in the first year of my degree when I mentioned Uni (I'm in the middle of my PhD, I'll have everyone know...!)

Ko; In the end, I started using the car-seat on the pram's frame which is much lighter than what we were usually doing, so that's helped a ton. I have been dropping HEAVY hints about a bugaboo bee, and recently saw that DH was looking at the bugaboo's website, so fingers crossed! Ha!

Smiler; if such a thread existed, my MIL could contribute to it HEAVILY. She reguarly tells me I am breastfeeding 'wrongly' (don't think so, Sebastian weighs over 15lbs!!!) and a few days ago I cracked and said 'Do you want a go then, LOVE? I think the last time you breastfed was thirty years ago...' HA!

Would love to take up all offers of meetups, off to send some PMs now.

Again, thank you to everyone for being so lovely!! Sebastian is looking at me with his 'Now, Mumsy, get ready for a screamfest face...' so I better dash.

R xx

[ryedalema]

Hi Ruth - I know I'm late to your discussion but just wanted you to know that I had the NCT classes and have met many 'perfect Mums' and I am proud to say that I am doing almost nothing 'by the book'. With our 11 week old we are doing a mixture of co-sleeping, mixed feeding, feeding on demand etc etc. The only thing I know we're doing right is keeping her clean, warm and happy. The last because she coos and smiles - has Sebastian reached that stage yet? When he does it can lift any really sh**ty day and turn it into a fab one ;-)

I too am having very little sleep and as such wanted to offer you a shoulder/hand (other body part) in the small hours if you want one. I'm up a lot during the night and if you want to SMS me we could rant together.

I'm keeping it together with a big hand from my friend Sapphire 'Bombay Sapphire' (in a non AA but quite slummy mummy sort of a way) so don't worry about imposing - it'll be a pleasure to have a rant partner. Oh - and I've a shocking memory, so even if you do tell me your birth story ten times I'll still be able to react as if it's the first time I've heard it.

The only other thing I wanted to add was that the worst part I found about the early days was not having a feeling of 'achievement'. Yes I know we've achieved 'new life', but on a day to day basis there's not much that you can point at and say 'look - i did that today'. So - try and achieve one little thing. For me it was an obsession with an empty laundry basket (I still have it - and my OH regularly has words about it, but tough sh*t). But it could be opening the post, booking those jabs, moaning to the Council about the state of the roads - anything at all.

Oh - and if you really need to let off steam. Find a bank, insurance company or mail order customer service centre who have let you down in some way - fabulous therapy (if a lot naughty!).

There - I've given away a lot of my very bad habits - but I hope it helps.

Please PM me if you want to rant with ryedale-ma!

[Ko]

sorry SW - was only joking about NCT! i too am an NCTer and thought the antenatal classes were fab and would definitely recommend them. the other NCT mums i have met are lovely and although you meet the odd strange one, its the same in every walk of life! ruth - glad you are coping better with the pram x

[Belle]

Ruth - if you want to PM me re PND and medication (i took a v effective anti-depressant for mine, quite low doseage and no scary side-effects!) plus other treatment please do. no wonder you're finding this hard - I found sleep deprivation made the depression a million times worse, it's impossible to see the bigger picture when you're that tired, so def rope in help where you can. It's so true that it does all get better because here I am 13 months on and gearing up to thinking about another! Now that's something i SWORE would never happen.

[Lochie]

Hi Ruth - am sure you have looked into this already but have you asked your GP about cognitive behavioural therapy? It really helped my PND, I was diagnosed 4 months ago and am pretty much fully recovered now. Anti depressants also helped me but I don't think I would have recovered properly without the CBT. I have heard CBT is quite hard to get as its very popular but maybe speaking to your health visitor or GP would give them the nudge for a referral?? I too had very very horrible 'flash backs' of a long and difficult birth, the CBT helped that as the therapist usually offers trauma therapy. I know exactly how you feel as I would often be gagging for sleep but would find that all I could think about was the labour - horrible horrible, but I promise you it fades in time.

[apenn]

Dear Ruth,

I just skimmed this very long thread and gleaned from it that you tried co-sleeping, but thrashing was an issue. Just a suggestion, but you might want to try a co-sleeper cot that attaches to the side of your bed. This way, you all have your own "space," but you don't have to get up for the frequent feeding. I've got a cot that one of the sides actually rolls down under the cot and you put the cot next to your bed. You can find them on ebay, Amazon, and most of the baby sites that sell nursury furniture.

I should have prefaced this by saying that co-sleeping really works for us and we're lucky to have a baby that doesn't thrash about (although he used to thrash his legs a bit when he was in the process of waking for a feed). However, I just thought I'd let you know about this option in the even that you think it might help you.

Wishing you lots of luck!

-A

[apenn]

Hello again Ruth! I woke up this morning thinking of you and had a thought -- have you tried putting your baby to sleep on his side? The midwives and health visitors don't tell you about this, but if you ask them about it specifically they'll tell you it's OK. I foung that putting my baby to sleep on his side helped him to settle more easily and he slept longer. I wish I had know you could do this from the beginning. If he was on his back sometimes I could roll him onto his side and he would settle back to sleep without a feed. If he doesn't balance easily or moves around too much, you could try buying a sleep positioner or rolling some towels to place on either side. I would offer you my sleep positioner - but it's already in my in-laws loft in Essex!

Also, and I have no illusions that either of these suggestions will be a magic cure, but you could try putting a drop or two of lavender oil on a muslin and place near him when sleeping. Perhaps this might also help him sleep more restfully?

Thought these might be worth a shot!

[anna75]

oh dear, I feel for you. I need my sleep and that sounds awful and almost like torture to me. Really awful. I am surprised you can post a coherent message!

Thoughts

How much does he eat during the day?

If low, can you take him out in pram during day, get some exercise and fresh air for him and increase his appetite?

dummy - no idea as I don't know how they work for a newborn or anyone who has used one.

headache - see below

own room - we moved ours out at 4 weeks

I thought I was hard done by as my 11weeker sleeps from 11 to 7 while other friends' babies sleep 12 hours!! your story is horrendous though. Has he a natural or difficult birth? I have hard that either can result in a terrible headache for babies and it is that that makes them cry. Can you try cranial manipulation? (by an expert obviously)

THinking it over, most of my friends' births were elective sections and none of these crying issues arose so maybe there is something in the headache idea...

Lastly, we have done nothing that the books said. We fed on demand and the baby herself has set her routine and sorted out her little life. I wonder if there is something to be said for the theory that babies cannot relaly be trained and will change/sleep when ready for it. I don't know. It is our first baby and I cldn't be bothered with NCT classes so we just followed what the baby wanted.

[The Nappy Lady]

I have one of those sleep positioners that APenn mentions - you can have it if you want it as it is in a pile of stuff that needs to find a new home, just let me know.

Molly

x