If I don't get some sleep, I may die...HELP!

[Ruth_Baldock]

I know we have a lot of these types of thread on here, but I am going slowly mad.

My son is almost 12 weeks old and his sleeping is...SHOCKING. He wakes up every two hours, and has a feed, but 99% of these are comfort feeds. He has a dummy, but it falls out of his little mouth and he goes BESERK crying his head off when that happens. We're co-sleeping, but he is a little thrasher and us being in the bed wakes him up- we tried putting him in his cot last night and he whined for his dummy but didn't yell like he normally does. He was asleep from 10-3, save the odd whine for his dummy.(He naps in his cot during the day for a bit, but if he naps in my bed with me, he sleeps for hours and hours) However, the 2-hourly wakings are slowly driving me mad; giving me shocking migraines, no energy and generally feeling teary all the time. I went to an NCT group recently and all the Mum's there said their babies slept through the night! Oooh, I was green with envy.

i think the problem is his dummy falling out, so the most logical thing would get him used to falling asleep sans dummy, probably...

We have tried CC but he yelled for about an hour straight with no let up, so it seems nothing works!!!

Will he ever sleep through the night, or will he still be crying in the night when he's at University?!

[Claire29]

I wish i had a magic wand to make things better.....but it does get better trust me! I've got 2 boys and have made mistakes along the way, the little one still end's up in our bed every night, a habit which is our fault because we found he slept better with us than in his cot which was on the first floor. I know now that to break the habit will take a good week or so of crying/tantrums etc (he is nearly 2) when he was born i was more than happy for him to have a dummy, they are a life saver but also can be sleep wrecker!!! Loads of time's when he was younger dummy would fall out and we would have to find it and put it back in. Next time I will probably try and give the dummy a miss because all the parent's i know whose kid's dont have dummies, tend to sleep better. But it's what works for you, I find a dummy handy for when he is tired in the day and wants some comfort.

One thing i have also learnt is not to belive everything other mum's say about their babies been perfect sleepers and going through the night, i'm not saying that some babies are really good sleepers but ALL babies have their off nights and wake up, and ALL (or most at least) go through phases of bad sleeping or habits like waking up at certain times.

I think personally i would find it very hard to do CC with such a young baby, at 12 weeks old he is still very young and is perhaps finding it hard to settle without the comfort of you around. I found starting a routine in the evening was a good start, having a bath, feed, bit of kids tv or baby music whatever is soothing for him and keep to it every night so that he will learn to expect what is happening next.

I would try and see this as a temporary thing, the really bad sleeping that is hopefully he will settle down soon. My 5 year old still wakes up sometimes with nightmares so the days of a good uninterupted 8 hour sleep are a thing of the past! but you do get used to it and while baby is so young if he sleeps in the day you must take the time to rest/sleep too.

It does get better and easier i promise!

[Ruth_Baldock]

Hi Claire,

The dummy is both our bessie mate and worst enemy. We introduced it after a phase where I hadn't slept for four days because DS was comfort nursing. The MW came round and I was literally insane, so we gave him a dummy and lo and behold, a quieter happy baby. However, like you said, it falls out and we have to find it and pop it back in!

We have a very strict and well established bedtime routine- bath at 6, tummy time and general kicking about without nappy/PJs (his favourite), feed, bed. That bit generally works 9/10 and we can get anything up to 5 hours out of him that way! It's just after he wakes up for his later feed (between 10 and midnight) that all the 'fun' begins.

Weirdly though, he is able to settle himself no problems during the day- we put him in his cot with the mobile and dummy and his blanket and he'll settle himself within 10 minutes. Has a little chat and then he's out like a light. When we settle him at night, one of us stays with him for the first 20 minutes or so, and we leave a muslin cloth with my 'scent' on it to comfort him, but...no dice.

:( Good point about not believing what others say- another Mum at the group said she thought everyone was fibbing- she also had a little night owl on her hands.

[Claire29]

My nearly 2 year old, when he wakes up still in either his cot or our bed he still cries for his dummy even though i normally leave 2 or 3 around him so he can quite easily get one, but it's much easier to cry as mummy or daddy will come and put it in!

I didn't breastfeed mine so I'm not much help with the feeding but i do remember from bottle feeding that they would be fine up until hte 1/2am feed then once they had that they would sleep, but it would always be restless. I had them in moses basket next to bed for first 3-4 months as i found it easier for in the night, and also was able to stroke their face/ hold hand without getting out of my bed. I leave the radio on quietly in my little one's room when he does sleep in there, i think he likes to have some backround noise, that may help.

Your not alone and i'm sure most of the mums on here will have gone through similar experiences with babies having bad sleeping habits at some time, for the lucky few some babies do seem to sleep soundly from a very early age......but the majority don't so try and take some comfort in that.

As your little one get's older he should hopefully get into a sleeping pattern in the day which should help his night sleeping.

If all else fails, take it in turns with your hubby as much as possible and get some ear plugs, let each other get at least a couple of hours of uninterupted sleep if possible by perhaps going into another room.

Good Luck x

PS I think the lack of sleep does continue when they are teenagers, then we will be worrying about them coming home and what they are getting upto!

[snowboarder]

Um - yes - maybe don't listen to the sleeping through the night mums!! They will NEVER understand unless they have had long term bad sleep. I stopped talking about sleep pretty early on to sleeper-through-ers!

The bad news is I think I probably posted in a similar way...oo...8 months ago re my little one. I am only just tackling sleeping problems now. I think you need to decide whether you're happy for him to be in bed with you or you really want him to be in his cot - maybe decide one or the other, then go about the next step.

I comfort fed my baby through the night for 11 months. I stopped last week. I have no real advice as we are so not there yet other than you really need to be ready to do something about it, and have a really clear plan that you are really dedicated to see through - so often I thought - right - tonight we will only feed every other wake up (or something random like that!) and give in because I just needed to sleep and feeding was easy.

On the up side - well - after 11 months you get pretty used to no sleep - you don't feel nearly as bad as you probably do now!!

[Belle]

12 weeks is still so wee - totally agree every two hours is hideous and I know how awful sleep deprivation can be - but what I mean is try not to compare too much with people saying their babies sleep through. What do they really mean by that? I remember my mum's roofer telling me his baby (2mths) slept through and when I said 'really?' he said 'aye well, just wakes once now for a feed about 3am'. Which just illustrates that everyone exaggerates a bit, sometimes very simply because they're kidding themselves as much as anything else.

It's already been said but - share the load as much as you can. If your partner's job means that getting up at night is out of the question, perhaps he can take over at weekends to give you that bit more sleep. Like the poster above I didn't breastfeed but I remember asking a (male) friend whose wife did, what he did to help at night (as he'd talked about getting up x times) - he said he'd get up and bring the baby to his wife for a feed, then do the winding/nappy changing if necessary and resettling after. Ok so he is sort of saintlike but even if that's not feasible in the week, could it be at weekends - or could your partner do the 11pmish feed with expressed milk in a bottle?

Also..is it that one of you is staying in with the baby after that last feed because historically he's not settled well? Just wondering if he's not settling well because you're in the room.

Dummy was my saviour so am with you on that one...

[Goodliz]

I don't have any real advice but I do feel for you. It is a while since mine were so small but I can remember those mums who said their babies slept through. If that many babies slept through there would not be so many best selling books about how to get your baby to sleep through! It is awful but you will get through it. Sorry I cannot say anything to help but I am sure as your baby grows it will get easier. I really feel for you. Best wishes for a good night's sleep soon.

[Ko]

poor you. as you say he settles to sleep well during the day, could you take the dummy out as he is dozing off - so he has it to settle, but it comes out before he is fully asleep. i have heard that works sometimes.

he still is quite young and all babies go thru good and bad patches i think, but that doesn't make it any easier. i would agree with the person above who says to get ear plugs and takes shifts in looking after him. there is no point both of you being awake. but if you are breastfeeding and its milk he wants, will he take an expressed bottle from your partner?

lack of sleep is very hard and utterly exhausting. let us know how it goes xxxx

[The Nappy Lady]

Ruth,

I can't add much to what others have said, other than get the wax earplugs that mould to the shape of your ears for the times when others can be on 'duty' so you don't even hear what is going on...if they need you, they can come and get you and you will get some much needed sleep.

I've been at both ends of this - my first, now 5 (really did) sleep through almost all the time from 10 weeks old, heaven knows why, I am sure it wasn't down to anything we did, mostly just good luck because our 2nd, now almost 17 months is still very random, and wakes in the night more often than not.

With number 2 I co-slept for a LOT longer, and was very soft with her because she was a much longed for and 'precious' baby, so I suspect I probably should have got a bit tougher sooner (but not at 12 weeks). I finally put my foot down when she was about 13 months old and still getting me up 4 or 5 times a night and started going in to soothe her but refusing to breast feed. She actually got the message pretty quickly, but was very cross for a while (but always right as rain and sunny in the morning!).

It is such a hard time, do try to take any offers of help you can and sleep when your baby does whether that is during the day or at night. EVERYTHING else can wait, trust me, I hardly did a thing around the house for 6 months but after one good cleaning session you would never know (which makes me wonder why I clean as often as I do the rest of the time!).

....and finally, if not too late can I say sorry to any fellow Mum's who knew me when I had a-baby-that-sleeps-through....being my first I was so caught up in the magic I had no awareness of how it might be for others who were not having such a good time....which is I'm sure the issue with talking to other first time Mum's who are also so lucky. We don't mean any harm, we just don't know any different.

Anyway, don't wish to hi-jack the thread.....really hope things improve soon.

Hugs, Molly

x

[alieh]

I feel for you! I was going demented with lack of sleep at that stage. If it makes you feel better, my son was sleeping 10 hours, quick feed at 4 am, and back to sleep for a few hours at 7 weeks old. I thought we had CRACKED it! But guess what...at about exactly 12 weeks he went haywire and ummmm he's 15 months old and still a teeny bit haywire?? (exaggerating...he's much better now. But I still feel excited on the nights he sleeps right through). So those smug mummies with sleeping-through 12 week olds, may be eating their words in a few weeks!

They change so, so quickly at that young age that there is really no point in worrying about weaning from the dummy, or doing controlled crying because they are just too little to be "trained". It really is only about survival from day to day, as best you can. I survived only by sleeping during that 5 hour stretch some days (which for us was from 7 pm - not ideal) and by my husband taking the baby for an hour or so in the morning so I could get a bit more kip.

I sometimes (went through phases where it worked well, and phases where I couldn't be bothered) had good luck with a very loose version of the Baby Whisperer routine - seemed to help regulate the feeding and sleeping during the days a bit, which helped the nights a bit too.

Vent on here all you like and just try to find a way to survive the fog because it WILL lift.

[minder]

12 weeks is so young - just don't expect too much at this stage - especially that YOU will get any sleep! If you don't expect it then you can't be disappointed when it doesn't happen if you see what I mean. It's all part and parcel of being a mum.

When I look back I felt exactly like you and got myself so worked up about it - and no he won't be crying in the night when he goes to university!

[Fuschia]

There is a abig change at about 4m and manyof the "good sleepers" suddenly start waking, if that amkes you fele betetr. You can't really glean much from the bahviour of a 12w old. It will change

[snowboarder]

Yes - babySB definitely started his real problems around 12-16wks. I almost thought it was when he stopped really needing food in the night and started just waking and needing the comfort. It's so hard because in many ways HE had a lovely time - lots of milk and cuddles and snoozing. So if you can co sleep and get through it you'll have a pretty happy baby - it was also around this time he started being much better company in the daytime...

[ratty]

Have you tried a strictly kept to bedtime routine? It worked for us at that age although all babies are of course different.

It does get better of course (even though I have been up half the night with a 2.5 year old! :(

[sillywoman]

Everyone told me that at 6 weeks it all starts to get better - personally, for me that was utter rot, it wasn't until about 20 weeks that my shoulders started to come down from around my ears, and 6 months before I felt that this baby thing was manageable (she woke once a night for a (whisper it ;-)), bottle at that stage, & did that until she was about 17 months. But did settle fairly easily after.

However, all my babies all had trouble resettling after about 2 or 3 am at that age, and it just gradually got better. As other posters have said, get loads of help, catch up as much as you can during the day when he naps, and I would say consider whether co-sleeping is working for you? It may be that the first step is to persuade BabyBaldock to do a bit more sleeping in his cot if he's a 'thrasher'. Maybe the first & second evening sleep, then bring him in to you after that if you feel you need to - and gradually get him used to the idea that sleep happens in his cot. I think your plan to get him used to sleeping without the dummy is also a sound one, but remember plans take time and determination, the last thing is very hard when you're sleep deprived. be very, very kind to yourself. If your plan doesn't work at all after 5 days then step back & reconsider. Try something else.

But take heart, his sleeping isn't actually shocking at all, & you won't die of it! It's completely normal sleeping/ feeding behaviour for a little 12 week old as others have said. The other NCT Mums are all either extremely lucky, or exaggerating, or maybe indulging in some competitive mothering? I would hang out with the other Mum with a night owl more for a while. You need a mate who knows what you're going through.

Just thinking, is his cot in a separate room? I know the current advice from FSID is to have babies in with you until 6 months, but I have to say that by 12 weeks I was ready for some space, & having them in their own room meant I couldn't hear the snuffley whiney "I might be waking up soon" noises, and sometimes they went back to sleep again (I'm a 'definitely not' to a baby monitor, though I know that some find it helps them sleep more securely, I just felt I didn't need to hear every little noise. If they needed me they'd cry & I'd hear it, coz I was only next door.)

Don't know if any of this rambly stream of consciousness post is of any help to you? I just wanted to say "hang on in there" really, and change one thing at a time if you feel you need to(starting with the easiest).

And don't believe all you hear from other Mums.

Love SW

P.S. This post is with my Mum-of-4 hat firmly on, obviously I couldn't possibly recommend bottles, separate rooms and all that (completely normal & sanity saving stuff) if I had my NCT teacher hat on.;-)

[bumpy]

Hi Ruth, if you fancy meeting with some ladies who have babies aged between 7 & 10 weeks old with varying stories of night sleep, naps, dummy use, breast & bottle feeding then get in touch as we have babies that have good & not so good days which may be more helpful to hear rather than the perfect my baby sleeps through stories. P.M me if you're interested.

[Smiler]

Hiya, sympathy, remember that stage being really hard. Postnatal hormones as well as sleep deprivation. Anything less than 3 or 4 hour stretches of sleep is a real killer.

Not going to comment on ways to improve the baby's sleeping (not done well in that department and my daughter is nearly 2!), but rather ways of coping 'til it improves!

As others have said, get your partner to do as much as possible in the night - e.g. on certain nights of the week you sleep in a separate room and he brings the baby to you if/when he needs to be breast-fed, your partner doing the settling etc.

Go to bed extremely early - I used to go at 8pm at your stage! Is hard to let go of time to yourself / with partner, but worth it to get some sleep! Get naps in the day when you can. Clock up as many hours sleep as possible, even if not all in reasonable stretches. If your mind is too active to sleep, at least lie down and give your body a break.

Try to let go of goals during the day, e.g. cleaning, cooking etc. Stuff won't get done - it doesn't matter, you and the baby and getting rest are more important.

Get any domestic help that you can afford or that friends / family can offer.

Take care with safety - e.g. hot water, roads etc. Sounds really silly, but in that burry sleep-deprived state I wasn't on top of things when at home / out and about with the pram (e.g. nearly getting hit by cars, hoover falling down the stairs, hot water pans near the baby, falling asleep when baby was awake at home and rolling around), and was lucky not to have an accident.

Is there is anyone who can watch the baby for a couple of hours in the day while you get some rest? (If not, could your partner can do this on his days off work?).

Get lots of sunlight in the daytime (meant to help body when tired).

I never felt like any exercise, but when I actually got some, e.g. pilates or light workout DVDs, walk in park it actually helped.

Sorry if this sounds bossy, is just a dump of ideas.

It WILL pass! And LOTS of other mums, including in ED, in same position.

[cg]

hey Ruth - sorry to hear you sleeping tales. I was in the lucky camp that my baby slept through the night at 12 weeks but then at 4 1/2 months decided not to and used to be awake for anything up to 2 1/2 hours during the night - this went on for at least two months - so just because people have good sleepers now doesn't mean it will always that be and as the others have said don't listen to people boasting about their babies sleeping through - we all get our sleepless times.

I agree with the post above about going to sleep when the baby is asleep - at first i found it weird to go to bed at 8 but it really does make a difference. Also i know you are breastfeeding but have you thought about giving him some formula before bed or during the night as it is often more heavy and therefore they sleep better.

hope it gets better soon.

[Ruth_Baldock]

Thanks everyone for your lovely responses! Last night we DID try CC and it sort of worked...but by 10pm, Sebastian (Baby Baldock's real name!) was awake and screaming bloody murder. DH had said he would do the 10/11pm feed but the cheeky bugger came into the bedroom, poked me, handed me the baby and said 'He's hungry'. I thought my heart would break. However, when Sebastian woke up at 3am, DH did actually take him downstairs to give him a bottle of expressed milk, which was a nice change.

To answer some questions- He does sleep in a separate room, he has a large (vintage, dahhhling) cot as he's outgrown the moses basket and there isn't any room for it in our room. We have a baby monitor which is pointless because you can hear even the tiniest snuffles clear as a bell. He also has a strict bedtime routine, the same one he's had since his cord stump fell off at 13 days and we could bath him reguarly: bath at 6, kicking around on his playmat whilst his 'bits' air, bottle of EBM (always 5oz so we know he's had a good feed) and then bed. The bed bit seems to be a lot of running up and downstairs, putting his dummy in and winding up his mobile. It's like a very predictable dance routine, which is why I call it the Danse Macabre. Anyway, he normally does go down for a bit then.

Co-sleeping works for my DH who loves it, but he also has a habit of lying diagnonally across the bed so I'm squashed by both of them (cheers, darlings...). A swift kick to his (DH, not Seb's) kneecaps usually sorts it out. I'm a really light sleeper and need space so co-sleeping isn't really working for me, although I do get to nurse lying down.

I think the lack of sleep isn't helped by fresh bout of insomnia I seem to have acquired since having Seb. I lie awake miserably going over and over his birth (bloody traumatic, and I have vowed not to talk about it for 24 hours as it's all I think/talk about nowadays...) and getting more and more distraught.

I'm sure the NCT Competitve Mothers thought that my son's normal (by the sounds of it) sleeping habits were down to me being inept, or something. I'm only 24 so everyone assumes I haven't got a clue what I'm doing, and some have even asked if 1) I still live with MY mother (the cheek!) and 2) If Seb was an 'accident' (THE CHEEK!!!!!!)

I've gone off on a tangent, but I think the gist of what I was saying is that if I wasn't so lonely and miserable the rest of the time, the sleep issue wouldn't be quite as nerve-wracking as it is! Nice to know that not every other baby in the history of babies were sleeping through the night at this stage!

Ruth x

[Belle]

Ruth - i'm always going on about this but do you think it would help to request getting talked through your birth notes, when you feel ready? I got the midwife present at my birth to do this and it really helped. might exorcise some demons and help with the insomnia. Which also by the way can happen when you're really tired - or does to me - almost because you KNOW you need to sleep, the pressure means you don't!

the fact is age is nothing to do with it - nobody knows what they're doing with a first baby (you even hear nannies saying it's hard when it's your own), ignore any explicit or implicit criticism. it amazed me that there wasn't more solidarity among some mums (of course there is amongst some, don't get me wrong - see Bumpy's kind offer above!) - I was told several times that my baby was 'difficult' and 'demanding' by someone from my NCT group. not helpful!

[Smiler]

Really sorry you are having a bad time.

I had insomnia too (in my case think it was hormonal, not helped by the sleep disruption and having so much new stuff to think / worry about!) and it took a long while to go away. If it carries on it might be worth talking to your GP - someone else on a similar thread, for example, went on a course offered by Southwark PCT about sleep which helped her I think. Might it also help to talk to someone about the birth if it continues to distress you?

[Ko]

you poor love xxxxx wish i could give you a hug.

the 'NCT Competitive Mothers' quip had me tittering. great new title for them! was he an 'accident' and are you living with your mother - the blooming cheek!

i meet with a group of mums most weeks - next time i am going i will pm you with details and maybe you could come along. its good to get out and have a natter.

i ditto what someone said about trying to get outside, although it is hard when you are knackered. the fresh air and sunlight do give you a boost and are good for the body and mind. i think you said a caeserian and was finding it hard to get out - have you managed to get a better pram and how are you finding it now?

there is a new parents group at townley rd clinic on mondays 1pm - 3pm i think - great for meeting other new mums.

hang on in there and do come onto the forum for supprt whenever you need it. thinking of you xxx

[paps]

Oh Ruth i feel for you, our little one (10 weeks today!!) self settles but is like a robot and wakes every three hour for milk and sometimes only takes a small amount and decides his tired again or that at 3:30am he wants to party!! I'm convinced that as they get a bit older and take more milk they will sleep longer ;-)

Wishing you a better night tonight xx

[Smiler]

We should do a thread on "unhelpful things that people say to new mums"!

[Local Dulwich]

deleted as PC has done something very strange here.