Naps..?

[alieh]

snowboarder, I think he is still a bit young for just the one nap. I think most babies switch over sometime between 12 and 18 months, and 15 months is average.

What works for alot of people is to ensure the morning nap is a short one, and then a longer nap in the cot in the afternoon. For most babies it is better to have the longer nap in the PM so that they aren't overtired by bedtime.

You have to experiment with the "sweet spot" for that morning nap, but we found that 35 mins (ummm, yes...35 not 40 not 30!) worked really well. So we would do nap 1 in the buggy from say 9:30 - 10:05 (ha ha ha) en route to an activity/the park/whatver, wake him when we got there, do activity, etc. Home for lunch by 12:00, nap 2 around 1:00. After about a week of this schedule, my son was usually sleeping 1 hr 20 mins in the afternoon.

When that afternoon nap started getting shorter and/or he fought going down in the PM for a couple of days in a row, we shortened the AM nap down to 30 mins, then 20 mins. It sounds crazy being this precise, but for bad nappers it seems like the timing of the morning nap is key!

[snowboarder]

So alie do you actually wake him up?

The problem is getting the second (or any, actually) nap to be of a decent length. So 2 x 30 min naps today. Super.

[alieh]

Yes, I wake him up in the morning.

What time did he wake up and what time did you try for naps when you only got 2 X 30 mins?

Seems like there are three possible reasons for his napping woes: 1. he doesn't know how to transition into a second sleep cycle during the day or 2. he isn't tired enough when he goes down or 3. he is TOO tired when he goes down.

Clear as mud then, hey?! Has he ever taken a nap longer than 30 mins in the cot?

[Fuschia]

Does he wake up after 30 mins crying? I have always assumed if they wake up crying, they want to be resettled.. don't get them up. When smaller mine always wokr up after 45 mins and needing coaxing back off. Now they usually sleep for 2h exactly, if they wake sooner crying I resettle them.

[snowboarder]

Oh it's all been a total disaster again today! Woke at 6.15 (not bad). He's all energetic initially as sleeping better at night (sort of) so a bit drunk on sleep. Tried to put down for a morning nap at 9 - no joy 35 mins screaming. Abandoned, got him up. Obv tired. Tried again at 10.20 - he went to sleep after 5 mins grumbling but now awake again 30 mins later and cross cross.

I am getting ridiculously stressed about it and do not know how to sort. Buggy napping was great, stress free and worked like clockwork but never slept for long and have just decided he HAS to learn to get to sleep on own in cot, to help improve nights if nothing else.

He has VERY rarely slept for 30 mins plus in cot during day, and have never managed to resettle him by any method.

Roll on age 3/4 where naps are no more.

[Fuschia]

SB: I think I'd be tempted to go back to having a walk in the buggy at the times you want him to nap. Are you missing sleep cues? Need to put them down the second they start to look a bit bleary eyed, in my experience. It just might be he is not ready to extend his slep cycle yet (it's to do with brain development/sleep patterns) and is a particularly hard baby to settle. My first child was the same, he never napped with any regularity or significant length... but our twins are good nappers, and have got better as they've got older. IIRC up until they were about 16m, they used to have a nap in the morning and sometimes the pm one wasn't until 2ish, so it wasn't brilliant for an early bed time ... then at 17m they started at creche 10-12 and once they got over not being able to fall asleep on the way there, they got established with a very substantial 12-2pm nap and a 7pm bedtime.

It will come. Glad to hear night times are a bit better.

[alieh]

Okay, based on my "nap science" (ha ha ha) I would say that at 9:00 he wasn't tired enough so fought the nap, but by 10:20 he was too tired. It sounds like his "sweet spot" for a morning nap is somewhere around 3.5 hours after waking up. I would aim for this tomorrow for the first nap, and see how you go.

Also the 30 minute nap thing is a resettling issue, like Fushchia says. My DS still often peeps at 30 mins, but has figured out how to go back to sleep. But the key is that if the timing of the nap is off, the resettling will be even more difficult.

So, re: the rest of the day....he's had one nap 10:20-10:50 ish. I would be ready to try for nap 2 around 1:00.

Do you do a nap routine, similar to your bedtime routine? I.e. start winding down 15 or 20 mins before you want him asleep? I.e. nappy change, grobag, stories, etc.? So if you want him to be asleep at 1:00 or 1:15, then you start with this before 1:00. I usually do stories until I get the first eye rub, then it is pop him in the cot straight away.

Re: resettling at 30 mins. I found that once he was peeping, it was too late. What I did at the beginning when he was a bad napper is I would either stay in the room for the first 30 mins or else creep in around 20 mins. I would sit where he couldn't really see me and at the first sign of snuffling/stirring I would pat or rub his back or whatever to try to get him over the sleep cycle. Sometimes if that didn't work, I could manage to extend by rocking or even nursing back to sleep.

Have you got darkish room and white noise going too?

We can crack this and it is soooo worth it!

[snowboarder]

Grr. Right - just gone for nap 2 with minimum fuss at 2.30. So yep maybe 3.5 hrs spacing is good. But I really don't want him to have too big a sleep now (he won't, but still!!)

Totally can't believe I am stressing like this with an 11 month old but new sleep regime has thrown naps and approach to naps completely!! I feel like I'm starting over!

[alieh]

11 months is a wonky time for naps. At this age if they get too much sleep in the morning, they often refuse to nap or short nap in the afternoon. But they're often not ready for just one nap. So you do have to manage things a bit for them!

Try tomorrow AM for Nap 1 about 3.5 hours after waking, and I would wake him after say 45 mins (though sounds like maybe you won't have to worry about this part with his short-napping!), then try for PM nap anywhere from 2.5-3.5 hours later (if today went well at 3.5 hours gap, then try this again) - keep an eagle out for any tired signs and whisk him away, very short nap routine, into bed. If no tired signs (often aren't at this age), then watch the clock and do your nap routine even if he doesn't look tired.

You may have to stay a bit close to home for a few days or a week, just while you're trying to judge the best timings.

I honestly had the worst napper and now he is actually quite a good napper - I'm sitting here waiting to go out and he is still sleeping at nearly 2 hours! I am highly anal retentive about keeping an eye on nap timing, and also about having the longer nap of the day in the cot. It took a while, and we have periods of bad naps when I need to tweak the routine a bit, but overall naps are not an issue for us anymore (now 5 am wake ups, that's another story).

[alieh]

Was also going to suggest - if you can face it without wanting to jab a pen in your eye - keeping a log of sleep timings for the next couple of weeks. You can get an idea of what nap timings got you better naps, and better nights too. Also good to know how many hours sleep on average he needs in 24 hours. Whenever things go really wonky with us, I try to do this and I often notice things that help get us back on track.

[nunheadmum]

If it's any help, even Night nannies gave up trying to get my little one to sleep decently in the day! They sorted her out in the night but like yours she wouldn't sleep longer than 30-45 mins in the day. In the end I went with her on the proviso that the nights stayed ok. We were putting her down mornings at around 8.15-8.30 if I remember right - as soon as we spotted an eye rub or a slight yawn. I think she had 3 or 4 short sleeps - but that was around 5-6 months. SHe carried on with 3 short sleeps for a bit and then I think around 12 months or so started taking 2 longer 1 hour sleeps. She's only just started taking a proper lunchtime sleep now since around 18months.

If the buggy sleeps work for you and the nights are ok, maybe that's just what your LO is like.

I felt better when on the Gina Ford site I read a response from her on one topic that said some kids just won't fit into the standard routine and you just need to go with what works for them until they're ready to change. So guess some kids break even the queen of routine!

[alieh]

Very true nunheadmum! Snowboarder, if you give it a good go for a week or so, and he still short naps and it doesn't affect his nights then maybe that is just his thing. Hopefully we can manage to get him onto one nap in his cot though, just to give you a break.

[Fuschia]

nunheadmum Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

I think she had 3 or 4 short

> sleeps - but that was around 5-6 months. SHe

> carried on with 3 short sleeps for a bit and then

> I think around 12 months or so started taking 2

> longer 1 hour sleeps. She's only just started

> taking a proper lunchtime sleep now since around

> 18months.

Sounds exactly like our twins, what they did left to their own devices!

[snowboarder]

OK so think need to relax and go with flow and let sleep and naps settle for a couple of weeks then assess. Sure my stress is not helping! Thanks all. xx

[snowboarder]

OH sorry still seriously traumatic - why is it impossible to think straight when you have a loudly protesting TIRED baby on your hands?? I don't want to think what he'll be like when he's older...so.stubborn....yet such fun when on form!

[Billy]

Hi - Sorry to hijak your thread snowboarder. I also have trouble with naps for my 5 month year old. He sleeps well in his cot, but only for up to 45 minutes at a time and I can't resettle him. He sleeps well in his buggy as well but again usually for only 45 minutes. I can't see how to extend to the magical/mythical 2 hour lunchtime nap.... How do people resettle their babies? He is always so wide awake after his 45 minute nap and doesn't understand why I am trying to get him to sleep. If he is happy, should I just let him be?

[sanity girl]

My daughter didn't start having 2 hour naps until she was almost two. She started off with 3 naps max 45 mins but often shorter, then progressed to two of an hour each if I was lucky, and then finally she moved to one blissful nap of 2, sometimes 2.5 hours. Now of course she is 3 and starting to drop her nap altogether :'(

[snowboarder]

Billy - if you regularly get 45 mins in cot 3 times a day it sounds pretty good to me - we have always had dead on 30 mins cycles. God knows how you resettle - I have NEVER managed it and I just know it's pointless - he's so awake. There are suggestions about trying to lull them into the next sleep cycle by stroking their backs before they wake but v hard! This 2 hr nap is some time away for both of us I think!

[aj693]

I think what we did will sound insane but he had exactly the same problem with our son, and nothing else seemed to get him past that dreaded 30 min sleep at unpredictable times. It was involved and certainly won't be to everyone's taste, but it did work! We decided to get the timings the same every day first, and then transition to sleeping in the cot at those same times. Morning nap was in the buggy. Every morning, at the same time, hubby would take him out for a walk, first to Lordship Lane/North Cross Rd so he could see something interesting going on, then around very quiet streets with no distractions. At that point he would give him a bottle (he was bf until that point so it had to be dad doing the walking), and pretty soon he would drift off to sleep. That nap we would keep to somewhere between 30-45 minutes (I think it started off the longer end, and we gradually learned to make it shorter and shorter). The lunchtime nap was always in the car, as we realized he would sleep deeper with the humming engine. Again, it had to be quiet streets with a bottle, same time everyday. Gradually I could turn the car off (after he'd been asleep at least 10 minutes (but no more than 20 or he'd wake up - god knows why!) and park outside the house where I'd sit reading the paper, and he'd stay asleep. Occasionally he would rouse at the second sleep cycle and I'd start the car and drive around again. Soon I was able to carry him in to his bed once I got him in a deep sleep and he would stay asleep. Once he got the hang of the cues and the timings, the transition to going to sleep in his own bed was actually relatively easy.... Good luck!