Breast Milk STINKS...............apparently

[sillywoman]

OK, sorry Magpie - maybe you didn't deserve such an angry response? Fury got the better of me. However I still stand by the content if not the tone of my post. There is no excuse for making a woman feel bad for breastfeeding her baby in a changing room anywhere, for however long. None. And why on earth should she need to ask permission? That's the bit I don't get.

And I don't have a"hysterical lynch mob attempting to get the guy fired". Just me, asking you how you can justify your opinions.

[Keef]

Not a case of "should" or "have to" ask, I guess asking first would just be a nice gesture, especially to someone who was a bit protective of their changing rooms.

It would also have given him the chance to refuse, in which case it could have been reported on here, and taken up with the powers that be at MIND, and everyone could have gotten angry about it, but it would have avoided the actual situation that ended up happening.

I really don't want to sound like I am in any way unsympathtic to the lady in question here, I am just trying to look at the situation in a broad way to explore options.

[The Nappy Lady]

But I think she was already in there, trying on clothes. Baby wanted a feed (2-3 mins, one other person in shop and no queue). Then she carried on trying on stuff and came out intending to buy, but just checking kids books first when the spray 'attack' and accusation of breast milk stinking occurred.

The lady did not go in the changing room specifically to breast feed.

Also, whilst many of us have expressed anger/outrage at the behaviour of the manager the only ones who have mentioned him losing his job are those 'defending' him.

All us 'supporters' of localmama have asked for is an apology and for MIND to put a clear policy in place which is communicated to all staff. See my request and localmamas reply earlier in thread re what she would like her complaint to result in.

I don't see a lynch mob though accept the suggestion of a mass breast feed at the shop was confrontational, which is why we agreed not to do it, especially as MIND have been so quick to act on what occurred.

Molly

[Gimme]

Keef wrote:

"I do however agree with PGC, that it is very dangerous for a person to be torn apart on a forum like this, when they've not had a chance to express their side of the story. After all, it is not outside the realms of posibility that there was some misunderstanding here, and that he didn't come across as he had meant to."

Surely that is exactly what a forum like this is for. People expressing their vitriol at something they've heard third-hand, organising slots on TV shows to humiliate the person nationally and generally trying to get him sacked, removing his livelihood and hopefully ensuring he loses his home too. If this was mumsnet, the guy would have been hung drawn and quartered by now!!! After what he did, I would say he's got away pretty lightly.

[joom]

This story has made it onto the daily mail website...

[Huggers]

It's all in the Daily Mail on-line today- quite a big readers response on readers comments.

(I'm not a daily mail reader but look at the comments to have a laugh now and then)

[HOMum]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1255257/Manager-sprayed-air-freshener-I-started-breast-feeding-charity-shop.html

[ryedalema]

Wow what a piece and what a collective response from Middle-England. Regardless of the rights and wrongs of this incident I do feel it's a shame that this has gone so hugely public now, before Mind has had a chance to make amends. I really hope that people don't stop giving or making use of the very valuable services Mind provides off the back of this, hopefully, isolated case.

Hopefully I'm worrying needlessly.

[Keef]

This is another problem with forums like this. Too many "journalists" who don't actually do any proper journalism, but rather, read local forums looking for "stories" they can blow out of all proportion.

What a nasty telling of the "story", it should make people ashamed. The man has now been photographed, and put on the bloody internet!!!

This is not appropriate, and the "journalist" is barely above pond life.

I am so angry having read this, and I hope that even the people on here who were angered by the story, are at least a bit uncomfortable with the way it has been reported in that article!

[helena handbasket]

I agree.

[mumra]

Think the piece is fine and it is public news to a point hence the interest on here - and actually it says exactly what happened pretty much in the words of what has been reported on here from the lady in question, but really wish I had not read the comments afterwards as found them quite disheartening, sigh...

[cate]

I agree with Keef. How did the Daily Mail find out where the mother lived? She said they 'chased her down the street' in a previous posting. It would appear that she contacted them. Or they contacted her via the forum and she agreed to talk to them. I think this has gone too far and it makes the breast-feeding mothers on here look like vigilante militants. A charity shop is not a public place. It would have been polite for her to ask to use the changing room. The baby is not a tiny wee thing and could have had something to chew on. Maybe the manager's reaction was over the top but he doesn't deserve what has happened.

[Rhubarb&Custard]

Agree that this sounds an unpleasant story, and that the shopworker's alleged words were inappropriate and rude.

But what I'd really like to ask Localmama is why you want a 'public apology' (as highlighted at the top of your list) - rather than a private one? Could this not have been sorted between yourself and MIND, privately? The whipped-up public frenzy, most notably in the press - with pictures of the man in question does little but demonise. So many commentators have said how they will now boycott MIND stores up and down the country.

As Ryedalema says above, I too hope this doesn't affect what is, in essence, a brilliant charity.

[Keef]

Think the piece is fine and it is public news to a point hence the interest on here - and actually it says exactly what happened pretty much in the words of what has been reported on here from the lady in question, but really wish I had not read the comments afterwards as found them quite disheartening, sigh...

So it's fine to put a man's photo on the net, and point out his piercings, like that makes him some sort of nutter?

Notice no one asked him for a comment of reaction.

It's a pathetic telling of a story, and I hope the person who wrote it (well actually, cut and pasted it, with very little skill) is ashamed. Unfortunately, they won't be.

[FatherJack]

Keef....Uncomfortable yes. My first thought was not to put this on the forum but to approach MIND directly. This did not prove productive.

Because of a forum the Chief Exec's contact details were made available, who as I posted previously contacted me on Saturday night at 10.30PM. This certainly gave me the impression that MIND were taking it seriously. And I had hoped that MIND would have been afforded the time to carry out their investigation.

Another forum seems to have suggested involving the Daily Mail.

I did not think that it was appropriate to contact the Daily Mail, many don't deem this paper good enough to read, yet when publicity is required it's their first port of call. And as for the approach GMTV would have taken..........I would not have spoken with either.

For me it's not just about what went on before but the manager's overreaction to it, we were sprayed with an aerosol, and that is indefensible.

[Huggers]

The Daily Mail hates women, hates breast feeding and hates 'odd bods' so no winners in this article I'm afraid.

[Keef]

For me it's not just about what went on before but the manager's overreaction to it, we were sprayed with an aerosol, and that is indefensible.

Agree, and I always said the story was bad. I just felt a bit uncomfortable about some reactions on here, and I feel disgusted by that article, and the use of the mans photo.

[Keef]

I also agree that this can only damage MIND as a charity, which is a great shame.

I just wonder if localmamma received any money for her story, and if so, I hope it's made up for the obvious emotional pain that was caused!

[ryedalema]

Me too - very uncomfortable and I have to admit to not thinking this through when I originally suggested 'the press' although I was thinking of the SLP not the Nationals.

This now takes things into the realm of 'corporate reputational damage' for Mind and could affect current and future funding streams.

Also - as the manager hasn't 'right to replied' - although, Keef, it seems the Mail approached him (but I would imagine someone's PR machine deemed it not a good idea for him to speak) we cannot know his motivation or what could perhaps have been 'a moment of madness' - absolutely no pun intended here. This will make it very hard for Mind's HR dept to be proportionate in their actions, and could affect the manager's livelihood (and family?).

Again - I don't agree with the incident, as it has been related. But am v uncomfortable with the demonising outcome.

[Smiler]

B****** Daily Mail.

[cate]

Rydalema, if you were thinking of the SLP when you suggested press don't you understand that nationals pick up their stories from local papers? Having it in the SLP wouldn't have made it more contained and with a better outcome for the shop and manager?

[ryedalema]

Yeah I know - that why I said I hadn't thought it through.

[sillywoman]

I'm with mumra on this one. It seems to be a typical bit of tabloid journalism - hardly surprising - from The Mail. It's a little sensationalist, but otherwise seems to be a fairy accurate reportage of the incident. They've just said what happened. I don't feel anything about the manager's picture being on the internet. That's part a larger issue about the role of the media in the society we live in, one which you clearly feel very strongly about Keef, as is your right. As far as I could see the pointing out his facial piercings was just a quote from the Mum's description of him?

If I feel uncomfortable at all (& I'm not sure that I do) it's on behalf of MIND. As others have said they seemed willing to respond , though to my mind (no pun intended) a little slow to acknowledge the full extent of their responsibilities for ensuring their staff understand how unacceptable these attitudes are. I don't think their willingness to respond, at least at the top level, was made clear enough in the Mail article.

I have to disagree strongly with Cate though. I say again; why do you think it's reasonable for a woman to have to ask permission to feed her baby? As Belle pointed out, would you feel the same way if she was using a bottle?

Keef, I'm sorry that my anger, & that of some others, over this issue has made you a bit uncomfortable, but I stand firmly by it. Some things are just plain wrong.

[fabwoman]

Vanessa Feltz included this incident on her phone in on GLR this morning. I hadn't read it on the forum, but my ears pricked up when I heard "East Dulwich" and "the Mind shop". Unfortunately I had to go out, so didn't hear any of the contributions. I was shocked and angry when I read the thread on EDF. My children are in their teens now, but why does this debate keep on rolling around. Most women are discreet when they breast feed and why can society not accept that it is a perfectly natural thing to do. It's a shame but I will be reluctant to donate or spend money in that shop.

[Fuschia]

The worst thing about this sort of incident is that by making women uncomfortable about breastfeeding in public (and I'd think twice about feeding around some of those who post on the EDF on this subject!) it actually reduces the incidence of bf in the UK, which is already at an abysmal low compared with the rest of Europe, and the knock on effects of that cost the NHS a lot of money.