Breast Milk STINKS...............apparently

[intexasatthe moment]

Can you post a link ?

[daizie]

Not a video link please no .

[localmama]

To follow up, I received the following email from the managing director of the charity shops

The Mind Shop - East Dulwich

Mon, 1 March, 2010 16:58:10

From: "[email protected]"

Your email of complaint regarding the breast- feeding incident in the East Dulwich Mind shop has been passed on to me as Managing Director of the Mind Shops from Paul Farmer (CEO).

I am extremely concerned by your experience within the shop and I would like to offer my sincere apologies for any offence given.

An investigation of the whole incident is being undertaken by Mrs Anne Gowland this week. She may contact you directly. However if there is anything you wish to add to the e-mail you have already sent to Paul Farmer please send it on to me.

Mind shops are non-discriminatory and we do try to accommodate the needs of customers in every way we can, and while we have no specific policy on breast feeding, we will look into developing separate guidance for all of our shops so incidents of this nature do not happen again.

I assure you this matter is my first priority at this time and I hope we can come to a speedy and satisfactory resolution.

Regards

Bob Monteath

Managing Director

[alice]

so theres an end to the matter.

[The Nappy Lady]

Hopefully Alice,

As long as the guidance they put in place is appropriate, and localmama feels happy with the final results of the investigation.

Molly

[localmama]

I also had two men chase me down the street on my way to the train saying they were from the Daily Mail.. it took me by surprise and they took some photos so I think this may well be in the news tomorrow! I am a little nervous about which angle they will take and I'm more than a little shaken up that they could figure out which street I live on, but done is done.

It seemed like the reporters were clear that people high in the company had the right policies, they just haven't been communicated or taken up by the people I dealt with. Hopefully that comes across in the article.

I also want to say that I think Mind does some very good work and that I do not want publicity to take away from this.

I would like to focus on how to make sure women are not harassed or stopped from feeding their babies, no matter where they are.

[localmama]

The email is a good start, with a clear apology. I will be interested in the results of their investigation and how they follow up with their employees to make sure customers are not harassed or stopped from feeding their babies.

[emc]

local mama - did you get my email? Could you give me a call pls if poss thanks so much

[Peckhamgatecrasher]

Could I just comment, before this witch hunt goes much further, that I have always found Steve to be charming and helpful. He was also very encouraging to my daughter when she worked at the shop for her Duke of Edinburgh award.

That doesn't denigrate what happened to localmamma and that issue clearly needs to be dealt with, but I am very perturbed by the total slur on his character that has gone on in these pages.

[Keef]

I am very pro breatfeeding, and also sympathise regarding this incident. However, I find some responces on here rather disturbing. Yes society should bend over backwards to accomodate breastfeeding, but equally, women should respect the feelings of someone who finds it offensive. Not talking about the chap in the shop, more a general point. I do hope this man doesn't get demonised by some tabloidesque trash on telly though.

[trinity]

Keef Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

but equally, women should respect

> the feelings of someone who finds it offensive.

I don't think we should. Breastfeeding a baby is never offensive and if someone finds it so they need to adjust their attitude. Some people may find themselves uncomfortable around breastfeeding women in which case mothers can be discrete.

Yesterday I had a conversation with my 11yr old son about the subject. (They had been discussing it at school because of the case of the lady being thrown off the bus for feeding her baby.) He said - if people don't like seeing it they can just look away.

[Keef]

Breastfeeding a baby is never offensive

Well clearly to some people it is.

and if someone finds it so they need to adjust their attitude

Nice.

But you then go on to say that a mother could be discreet, which seems to be the ideal solution doesn't it?

Just to be clear, I think women should be able to feed wherever they like, but I also think they should try to be discreet, and should respect the views of others.

[emc]

Hi All

I work in TV and just wanted to say that I'm not interested in the story from the point of view of focusing on this individual in particular or the shop - in fact prob wouldn't even mention him or the MIND store - I am just interested in using it as a starting point for the debate.

And the lady on the bus story last week, according to the latest press reports after CCTV footage was looked at by the bus company, doesn't stack up...though the woman in question is stickign by her story.

Thanks

[trinity]

Keef Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Breastfeeding a baby is never offensive

>

> Well clearly to some people it is.

>

> and if someone finds it so they need to adjust

> their attitude

>

> Nice.

>

> But you then go on to say that a mother could be

> discreet, which seems to be the ideal solution

> doesn't it?

>

> Just to be clear, I think women should be able to

> feed wherever they like, but I also think they

> should try to be discreet, and should respect the

> views of others.

The point I was making was the difference between people finding breastfeeding offensive and and those who find being near a women breastfeeding makes them uncomfortable.

The difference is that people who find it offensive are not satisfied with a woman feeding discreetly. The example of localmama is a perfect example. Their reaction is unreasonable and should not be respected.

Those who find themselves being uncomfortable when a mother is feeding her baby are satisfied when it is done discreetly. This is reasonable for mother, baby and bystander. This view should be respected.

[Keef]

Well then we're in complete agreement, something was just lost in translation. I was using the word "offensive" for what you were calling "uncomfortable".

I was just riled by a comment earlier that seemed to suggest a person was being unreasonable if they didn't want to see a breast/nipple. I don't think that is unreasonable. I personally have no issue with it, but someone does, then fair enough.

If someone just finds breast feeding as a whole, "unacceptable" in any public place, and are not satisfied with a lady being discreet, then they are clearly unwilling to compromise, and that is unfortunate, as compromise needs to be made in most areas of life.

[The Nappy Lady]

Keef,

If you were riled by my earlier comment I apologise, but I was simply trying to establish what it is that might be offensive about the act itself. I also said being discrete is appropriate in certain circumstances (though should not be demanded, as you say it shows a level of compromise from both sides of the fence).

From my own point of view I was asking what it is that offends people because I don't understand. A fair question I feel, but only a question, nothing more.

In this instance localmama was behind a curtain, couldn't have been more discrete, but still got treated very badly. Steve may be a nice chap in general, but in this particular moment he behaved badly - as we all can at times, and personally I think he should apologise, and reconsider his attitude.

As I said in an earlier post I probably sound over passionate about all this, I guess I was just upset on localmamas behalf.

Molly

[Magpie]

Doesn't it seem a bit odd to breastfeed in a changing room of a charity shop? I can see why the poor bloke may have been a bit taken aback.

[Keef]

From my own point of view I was asking what it is that offends people because I don't understand. A fair question I feel, but only a question, nothing more.

Well I can't answer with any degree of certainty, as I don't find it offensive. But some people are less comfortable about seeing a bit of flesh. I guess there are also cultures where it is deemed unacceptable by some, for women to show ANY skin in public, let alone a breast.

It would seem we are all really saying the same thing, but in a different way. I have been trying not to post on the forum lately, as it annoys me (not this bit, but other sections), but felt this worth talking about.

A friend of mine used to work in a popular bar on LL, and he was sure that a particular trio of ladies used to actively try to make him uncomfortable with their feeding, almost challenging him to look, or to say something. Of course, he could have been being completely paranoid, but I cam imagine what he meant, having spoken to SOME women about these things.

Just for the record, I wasn't really commenting at all on this particular incident. I do however agree with PGC, that it is very dangerous for a person to be torn apart on a forum like this, when they've not had a chance to express their side of the story. After all, it is not outside the realms of posibility that there was some misunderstanding here, and that he didn't come across as he had meant to.

[snowboarder]

Magpie Wrote:

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> Doesn't it seem a bit odd to breastfeed in a

> changing room of a charity shop?

You know, I thought that at first - but actually thinking about it what a great idea - much more discreet than me in cafe nero...And I have often trekked round with increasingly hungry baby looking for somewhere 'suitable' to feed. Never occurred to me.

And the mind man should not have been looking in a changing room, should he?

[mumra]

Actually if you ask most stores if they have somewhere where you can feed your baby they will say you can use a changing room, Topshop certainly does, as do Marks and Spencer in smaller branches and I think this is a great idea if they are not big enough to have the facility of a 'Family room' like John Lewis or Places like Bluewater. Quite commonplace practice I believe rather than uncommon, and great if you are not comfortable feeding in an open place like a cafe.

[Magpie]

But a charity shop? Really? Also how long does it take to get the baby fed? If we are talking 5 - 10 mins again you can see why someone may be a bit confused as to why the single changing room in a shop is being used as a mobile canteen. Perhaps it would have been polite to ask first?

[Belle]

magpie - the mum in question has explained her baby is very quick and she'd looked round the shop and there was only one other person in there, plus one changing room was free (there were two). She also said she was already in there trying on tops. So in that context I really don't see the problem. It wasn't like she was walking down lordship lane and thought, ooh that'd be a good spot to feed my baby. I've frequently had to bottle feed my baby on the street and all sorts of other places (classy) - doesn't seem fair that a breastfeeding mother be criticised for doing exactly the same thing.

[sillywoman]

OH FGS Magpie - have you any experience at all of dealing with the demands of a small baby? because you don't sound like you do. Babies don't "ask first", they need feeding NOW! Sadly they don't operate on the same rules and manners system as 'civilised' society.

There's no need for any justification for feeding a baby anywhere at all, for however long it takes. The problem doesn't lie with this Mum, nor where she was when the baby needed feeding, the problem lies with outdated and unjustifiable attitudes like yours. I'm with Molly on this - does the sight of a woman's breast or maybe a glimpse of (whisper it) nipple offend you? If so - why? Is it because you associate these body parts with sex & therefore consider that that they shouldn't be exposed in a public place? YOu shouldn't have to run the risk of seeing such a shocking sight? Do you think it more appropriate for her to feed her baby in public with a bottle despite the fact that the health benefits to her baby could be less or compromised? Really - who does have the problem here, and what kind of a civilisation are we where these attitudes are allowed to be considered reasonable?

[Magpie]

Exactly Sillywomen, on the basis that I think it would have been polite for the mother to ask the shop whether it was ok, I am an evil breast feeding denier, am scared of nipples, and am demanding that all babies are bottlefed.

Please carry on with your hysterical lynch mob attempting to get the guy fired.

[Keef]

That is exactly the problem with this particular part of the forum. A lot of the topics are somewhat emotive, because they re based on peoples beliefs about parenting and family. Therefore, people get somewhat protective / judgemental (I am as guilty as anyone else).

Sillywoman, Magpie said nothing nasty, and was just voicing an opinion, and frankly, you've gone a bit mental at her/him. A baby might not want to wait for a feed, but would 5 seconds to say "excuse me, do you mind if I just nip in to the changing room to feed the baby?" make such a huge difference? I think not.

I'm not saying that she should have had to ask, but it's not such a bad idea, and the suggestion certainly didn't deserve the response it got.