20 mph limit (in East Dulwich)

[SteveT]

J Barber wrote:- Huguenot, fascinated to read about junction and link times.

I'm fascinated that you believe it and find it worthy of comment.

When they had the problem with the dartford tunnel being too slow for the amount of traffic, the spokesman for the Dept. of transport said by reducing the speed through the tunnel it will reduce tailbacks and allow more traffic through.

Then they found out it was a load of rubbish, and built the bridge.

Reducing the speed will not hasten traffic flow.

If they wanted to improve the traffic flow make the traffic lights change to green before they have to stop, not make the traffic stop and then change to green.

Since mad ken messed around with the lights they seem to be stop for a greater amount of the time but the pedestrians end up on the pavement forever waiting to cross.

In New York when you stick to the speed limit you do not stop when going into, or out of town, the lights change before you hit them thus saving valuable fuel and time.

It is not a high tech solution waiting to happen they,ve had lights to accomodate this concept for years but never put it in to practice.

Why?

[silverfox]

Conspiracy

[SteveT]

Perhaps some may see me as cynical if I suggested it is just another way of Southwark harvesting the motorist for extra revenue.

Speeding is not what I like to do so I use 'cruise control' which maintains the car speed from 25mph upwards, so I can happily keep under the speed limit, these become obsolete on cars at 20mph.

[sanity girl]

I don't know yet - the police are handling it and I'm waiting to hear from them

Sue Wrote:

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> Was the car driver prosecuted?

[LSL]

Certainly be keen for some speed limits at the top end of LL - Plough down to Townley Road. Frequently see speeding vehicles and too many of the drivers are on mobile phones as well.

[Huguenot]

It's alright SteveT, you don't need to believe me, it wasn't my idea. People have been working for years to keep traffic moving smoothly despite ungrateful self-indulgent drivers trying to feck it all up for everyone else. I sought out their opinion.

The changing lights system is used in the UK outside of London. You've probably worked it out, but you can't just turn a light green when SteveT approaches - there might be a car coming the other way ;-)

The traffic light system in London is integrated - you can't turn lights on demand because activity at one junction has an impact on activity at the next.

[James Barber]

Hi SteveT,

Speeding fines go to the treasury. They don't touch local council coffers.

M25 has a 50mph speed limit to cope when high volumes. That seems to work.

Dartford tunnel volumes keep going up and they're now talking about another bridge or tunnel. So I don't think speed limits would ultimately cope with this.

Timing traffic lights to work consequetively if speed limit obeyed. great long overdue idea. Transport For london control traffic lights. Why don't they just do this?

[londonloves]

Huguenot

Thanks for the brilliant breakdown of 20mph versus 30mph-very clearly explained and very interesting. I confess I've heard this before but never broken down quite so neatly-I may actually remember it now! It also perfectly explains the anecdotal evidence of people in 20mph saying their journey times have reduced since the speed limit lowers-which "common sense" could have said was wishful thinking!

[Domitianus]

Point may have already been made above but I don't have timne to trawl through - does anyone actually believe for a single moment that even one per cent of motorist will actually ADHERE to a 20mph speed limit??? They don't pay a blind bit of attention to a 30mph limit, FFS!!!!

Consequently all the above calculations are utterly redundant!

[Jeremy]

SteveT Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> In New York when you stick to the speed limit you

> do not stop when going into, or out of town, the

> lights change before you hit them thus saving

> valuable fuel and time.

I noticed this in NY, and also Barcelona. The major difference is that these places have a grid system. The roads in London are much more jumbled up.

[SteveT]

Huguenot wrote:-

This means that in practice there is no significant difference in CO2 output between 30 mph or 20 mph in an urban scenario.

If all the traffic is in a lower gear it runs at higher revs, using more fuel for the same distance I believe.

[intexasatthe moment]

Just been looking at the letter from Southwark.

20 mph is fine with me ,though personally I find it quite a struggle to keep my speed from going above 20 to 22,25 mph.

Letter says " 20 mph speed limits are only suitable where average speed limits are naturally low ( 24 mph or below ) ".

I wonder if this average really does apply to vehicle speed on Barry Rd ,which I note is one of the roads to be included in the 20 mph restriction .

[tomchance]

I think it's a fantastic idea and should apply to the whole of London except for major through-routes. Safer roads mean fewer casualties, more people feeling happy to walk and cycle around, and a much more humane environment to live in.

If you make entire areas 20mph, you get much better compliance than having lots of changes between 20/30/40mph, and you don't need to clutter roads with speed bumps and other really annoying rubbish. Portsmouth has been trying this out with great success.

I'm really glad Southwark are gradually rolling this out. Islington recently joined us in exploring a whole-borough 20mph approach. Both have come about from tireless campaigning from charities, road safety groups and people like Jenny Jones.

Twenty is plenty!

[SteveT]

tomchance wrote:- you don't need to clutter roads with speed bumps and other really annoying rubbish.

That alone would be worth the 20mph to rid the town of tiresome speed bumps.

[Amysdad]

Old Kent Road and Walworth are not in SE22 or East Dulwich. On a less pedantic note I think it's a great idea. There might be a few more people alive right now if this had been introduced a few months ago. There's a crazy mix of 30/20 right now which confuses people like the ar5e in the WV behind me tonight going down Dunstans Road etc. etc.

[silverfox]

Will the lycra-louts stick to a 20mph limit?

[spark67]

It would be nice if people would stick to 30mph down our road let alone the 20mph limit. The part of Underhill road from the cemetery down to Melford road is like some unofficial race track, especially for the guy who i see most mornings driving a white van with the word "Enterprise" in red on the side, he screeches around the roundabout from langton rise, and really shoves his foot down on underhill road, you can hear a "whump" at every speed bump. i have had my car hit already by some women while it was parked outside my flat, her excuse was "well it was the rush hour" (WTF!)

[James Barber]

Hi spark67,

You need to ask your College ward councillors to buy the local College ward Police Safer Neighbourhood Team some speed cameras/guns and active signs.

We did this for the East Dulwich Police team and they can now have enforcement speed limits where residents report problems.

Having these tools for the East Dulwich Police team meant we felt confident to seek this 20mph speed limit on roads bounded by Lordship Lane and including Whateley and Barry without speed humps and bumps.

I'm hopeful the public consultation responses will agree....

If you have a view please do fill in the consultation form.

[silverfox]

'Wasteful' London council installs ?1,000 speed hump in a cul-de-sac

Southwark being silly

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/article-23808783-southwark-council-pays-pound-1000-for-speed-hump-in-cul-de-sac.do#readerComments

[BQC]

Vespa/Motorbike's are fastest + you can avoid the bumps. Only problem is your petrol gets taken before you get anywhere ! Guess that leaves walking to work ... boo-hoo

[kford]

I like those active signs. Especially the ones which 'smile' if you're under the limit. A good carrot, not stick, approach

[davidh]

I think many on here would secretly just like to uninvent the car and force everyone onto to bicycles or public transport. this notion of a blanket 20mph limit is unenforceable becos the majority would ignore it. by all means let us have a properly conducted referendum in southwark. I think that would result in a huge raspberry to the proposal.

[TheAllSeeingEye]

Agreed ...

I read half of the above posts before getting bored. When will this Nanny State end ??

Is East Dulwich anymore dangerous than anywhere else locally ??

Irrespective of 20mph or 30mph, basic common sense and good driving practices are what will reduce accidents and reduce congestion, nothing else.

Less people driving whilst smoking or talking on their phone. Less being distracted by passengers. As well as people parking more sensibly, and crossing in a safe place not walking out from behind parked cars on tight Victorian streets. All of these will have far more benefit.

[James Barber]

I recently acquired a map of Southwark with red dots for reported collisions involving people being hurt.

See attached. I'm afraid I've lost the context of the period covered - memory tells me three years.

Shows ribbon of crashes involving hurt people along main roads. Most of them TfL roads.

Clear that Lordship Lane a problem. Hence the proposed crossing and ?500,000 to improve road safety along Lordship Lane and Grove Vale.

[SeanMacGabhann]

James - people aren't interested in facts. You can prove anthing with them. They prefer blind prejudice and gut feel

I mean someone actually said on this thread that some people want the car un-invented. Where do you go with that? Running water is a great invention and we wouldn't get rid of it, but if someone left the tap on and it flooded the house, ruining the structure of the building and drowning people on the ground floor, you MIGHT suggest some kind of overflow system, or better drainage - you wouldn't want to un-invent the thing