advice from parents whose babies sleep well......

[paps]

...there seem to be lots advice on helping parents out with babies that do not sleep well but it would be great to hear from those that have babies that sleep well - what did you do, any advice you can give in order to help go down a road which is not filled with on going sleep deprivation!

My little one is 8 weeks old tomorrow so still vary small :)

[ludoscotts]

hi our little one thankfully has always slept well and I think its because we let he sleep when she liked.

We are in an unsual situation that my husband works from 10am till 11pm or 2pm till 11pm so we were never overly stressed about her going to sleep at night.

when she was really little she fell in to a routine herself of feeding 3pm,6pm,9pm,12am .....etc because of this it worked out well that she was actually still awake at 11.30 when my husband came in from work and he would give her an expressed bottle(from about 3 weeks old we did this)and she would sleep really well and seemed to settle for a long stretch at this point until about 6/7am.

I would give her another feed and she would go back to sleep until 8/9am.

She gradually brought her bad time forward herself falling asleep earlier and earlier until prob by around 6 months old she was in a routine of going to sleep at 8.30pm she would wake for a feed at midnight(or I would do dream feed) and then she would wake at 6/7am then go back down till 8.30am.

we had the odd burst when she was teething/growth sprut where she would wake for more milk/calpol etc but generally she has been an excellent sleeper.

I really think its because we have never enforced it on her and she found her own routine.

apart from illness/teething we never had the walking up and down at night trying to get baby back to sleep etc. She would always just go back in and settle.

the downside to her sleeping so well is that she didnt nap for as long in the day but I was fine with that as I was getting unbroken sleep at night.

she would generally sleep for 1 or 2 naps of 20-40 mins. so not long but enough time to have a cuppa or watch something on the iplayer!and like I said when I was getting a decent nights sleep it didnt matter.

When she started walking there was an increse in her naps and she switched to 1 nap of 1-1.5 hrs which was lovely .

she is now 2yrs old and goes up for a bath at 7.45 and Im back downstairs by about 8.10 and normally if I go back up 10mins later she is asleep and she still sleeps through till around 5.30-6am then wakes she normally asks for some juice at that point rather than milk now but then she goes back to sleep.

We have her sleep clock set for 8.30 and she knows that she dosent get up till it changes but its very rare that she gets up at this point its normally 9-9.15am that she shouts for us.

We are very lucky(however she hasnt napped since sept and has added the nap time on to her sleep in the night. as soon as she stopped napping she was sleeping for an hour longer!)

but it suits us. It means hubby gets a lie in and I work in the evenings after she has gone to bed so I dont go to bed until 1am so I can see hubby for an hour or so when he gets in (or work till then to meet a deadline!)

it suits us for now.

It will have to change when she starts nursery/school but for now im enjoying the lie ins.

[Gubodge]

I have two children. We took the same approach to sleep and routine with both of them. One never woke more than once a night in the 10pm to 5.30am shift even as a teeny tiny baby, and slept right through from 4 months old. She is five now and will occasionally join us in bed if she wakes early (6am) or if she is unwell, but that's it. The other would wake numerous times a night and didn't sleep through until she was two and a half. She hasn't made a habit of it since then either. It is an unusual morning when we wake up and find she's not in the middle of the bed.

In short, I don't think there's anything you can do to make them sleep better. Some sleep, some don't. Good luck!

[Carrie]

The best bit of advice I ever got was don't feed them to sleep - otherwise they don't learn to go to sleep without feeding and so whenever they wake in the night they will want to feed to get back to sleep again - unfortunately I got the advice too late when I was being woken up every 45 minutes by one twin or the other and had to go to sleep training sessions in an effort to preserve my sanity.

[Vickster]

My nearly two year old sleeps like a dream, and has done from about 2 months old. Looking back and trying to pinpoint what this is down to is difficult, but I think it must be down to the fact that we are really strict on the nightime routine.

Wherever we are, home, holiday, friends/families' house, we stick to the same routine around the same time. Winding down from about 6 with slghtly less entergetic playing, bath at around 6.30, followed by story and milk and cuddles and singing (lullabies rather than interactive stuff), then bed in own cot in a gro-bag (really useful when outside of familiar environment). My son still has a dummy but it is not used outside the cot, and only for dropping off to sleep, it is then removed.

I also think a good sleep in the daytime helps with night sleeping, certainly at toddler age. I know the compulsion if your child wakes in the night is to cut down on the daytime sleep, but I understand that at this age children still need 1 1/2 -2 hours sleep during the day. If they wake in the night, it is unlikely to be linked to the daytime sleep and cutting down on this will only cause bedtime issues because they are over tired.

Sticking to the bedtime routine might not suit everyone, as it does mean you have to be party poopers at the odd family event where children are still expected to be participating quite late into the night, and cuts down your eating out options when on holiday (!), but I think it is a small price to pay.

As always, everyone's experiences are difficult, but this has worked for us.

[sillywoman]

Carrie Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> The best bit of advice I ever got was don't feed

> them to sleep - otherwise they don't learn to go

> to sleep without feeding and so whenever they wake

> in the night they will want to feed to get back to

> sleep again - unfortunately I got the advice too

> late when I was being woken up every 45 minutes by

> one twin or the other and had to go to sleep

> training sessions in an effort to preserve my

> sanity.

. . .but I would add the rider that you should ignore this advice for the first 6 weeks & then gradually introduce the concept. E.g. post 6 weeks (or whenever you feel ready) make it a personal rule not to feed them to sleep between the hours of 11pm and 5am (or whatever works for you), then gradually extend that to encompass daytime feeds too. Or do it the other way around - daytime, then nightime. In my opinion one of the great pleasures in life is having your full-up baby fall asleep safe & content in your arms - whether it's a breastfed or bottle fed baby - makes no difference. Don't miss out on this.

Mine mostly slept well, but the one who slept best was the last one. He co-slept until he was about 9 months. Like Fuschia on a previous thread I barely even noticed him waking & feeding whilst he was in with us. After that he would go to sleep in his own bed & come into ours about 2am when he woke for his feed. I really loved that time with him cuddled up between us. Sometime between 18 months & 2 he dropped this night feed, & stopped coming into bed. from then on he would, & still does, sleep for 12 hours a night. I also followed the "the more they sleep, the more they'll sleep" school of thought & all mine had 3 naps a day as babies, gradually reducing to one by the time they were 30 months.

[Mellors]

I am a bit scared to say this as I don;t want to appear to be showing off, but mine both sleep very well (now 3 and 1 1/2 but have slept through 12 hours from about 3/4 months).

I need my sleep, and couldn't sleep with them snuffling about in the room, so had them in their own rooms in their cots after the first week or two (with monitor on). I know thats not the advice these days, but needs must! When I was breastfeeding them I would go into their rooms, get them out of their cot with the lights off/low (no talking/distractions), feed them and plonk them back in bed.

I am strict with evening routine. Dinner at 5 - 5.30pm, then we wind down with a long bath, lights low, PJs on, sometimes a bit of Night Garden and stories (for the older one). Milk to take to bed or a last breastfeed, then they go to bed at 6.30 - 7pm. I just say "Night night, I love you", final kiss, then lights off, door shut and thats it.

If they do wake up (which is hardly ever) I just talk/pat them to let them know I am there and get them settled again (I never get them out of cot/bed).

I suspect its just down to the individual child though - I know parents with, say, 2 who sleep brilliantly and one which is a nightmare.

[linzkg]

My son is just 8 months now and I've given everything a go, even though he's never been a bad sleeper as such as he has never fought sleep and when he's asleep he stays asleep for +- 5 hours generally.

I tried the "crying it out" but gave in within minutes .. its difficult to say 'don't feed them to sleep' as it goes hand in hand somehow with the timings - my son suddenly one day was able to put himself to sleep daytime naps and evening sleeps and this seemed to tie in when we introduced solids, granted it was when he reached 6 months or so (but again he's so easy to get to sleep that I didn't mind patting his bum, bopping him around, settling him on my chest, feeding him breast.

Looking back I miss the time when he was so little and fell asleep on me so maybe just relax for now and "enjoy" this time?

A neighbour recently gave me one of her books to keep on side and I have thoroughly enjoyed paging through. I really like the way they put things and its always made me feel so much better! The Baby Book, Dr William Sears and Martha Sears.

I've also found that actually he sleeps better in his own room in his own cot, we have had evenings where he's stayed with us in our bed but he doesn't seem to stay settled and sleep for long periods.

I've also not changed my lifestyle much for him, he's just fitted in, I'm not big into exacting routines either - so on occasions we'll be out and he'll go to sleep in his buggy, or if we're driving home he'll fall asleep in his car seat, I may be out during the day so he doesn't get his full lunch time sleep - I definitely pass him around which has resulted in him being content and confident in himself - I would say this goes hand in hand?

Definitely give the book a go though - I wish I'd known about it earlier!

Also, try stay relaxed in these next few months - there is so much going on .. growth spurts, teething, feeling unwell bla bla bla .. you can't get it all right and you can't fight it either - from one day to the next they can be so different (I look back and wish on some occasions I'd dealt with things differently and not got so worked up because your little one can definitely feel it even if you aren't showing it.)

All the best

[candj]

I too don't want to jinx anything but my two (5 and a bit and 2 1/2) have both slept very well. The first one we implemented the, whisper it, GF schedule for sleep at 6 weeks and she took to it like a dream. With my second I was a bit more lax and she eventually fell into a pattern at 2-3 months or so and was a great sleeper, as well. They both also really like their naps as my youngest still takes one from 1-3pm like clockwork everyday. With both, we woke them up for the dream feed at 10.30 - husband would give them a bottle while I expressed as it was just faster and they immediately went back to sleep. We stopped the dream feed when they were well established on solids at around 7-8 months old.

With our two I think they just liked the routine. It was something they were used to and we have a whole bedtime ritual we go through with teeth brushing, bath, getting into pyjamas, stories, getting into sleeping bag (younger one) and milk at bedtime (when they were younger). We even do this routine on airplanes and it works brilliantly to get them to sleep.

Hope this helps and good luck with your little one.

[Mellors]

We still do the 1 - 3pm nap for the younger one as well. Older one has now grown out of his, but has always been a good napper. When they were tiny I used to have a rule of never letting the babies sleep after 4.30pm no matter what, so we could still get them down at 6.30/7pm.

It does limit you in some ways, as said above, e.g. eating out at night with them, but I'll take the trade off of having my evenings (and nights) to myself any day.

[damzel]

I agree with Carrie (nearly), try not to let them fall asleep immediately after a feed BUT only during the day. You only have to change their nappy or blow on their face, anything so that they are awake between feeds and their daytime naps and the don't have to be awake for very long after the feed, even a few minutes would ensure the connection isn't made. That was the only advice I was given and I stuck by it and mine has never had a problem going to sleep, sleeping through from 10 weeks I think.

During the night, don't speak/play/turn the lights on. Change the environment as little as possible and if they fall asleep then it shouldn't be a problem as you will be dropping those feeds anyway.

Good luck

[snowboarder]

I know I have no place on this thread(!)...but....a word of warning! You can do all of the above 'good' things, have routine etc etc and they still may not sleep.....or like one friend do all the 'wrong' things and yet after the last feed to sleep at 7pm you don't see her little ones again until 7am - and she has done nothing!!

Luck, to some extent, I reckon. And someone once told me you only get what you can cope with (I'm not sure whether I found that reassuring or not!!!).

[Vickster]

Totally agree snowboarder, I think it is 90% luck, and some children are just destined to be better sleepers. As mentioned above, you can have a family with two great sleepers, and one dreadful one, despite having had the same routine etc.

There might be some truth in you get what you can cope with - I went back to work full time when my son was 6 months into a job with punishingly long hours that sleep deprived me anyway, so if he hadn't been sleeping well there is no way I would have been able to cope with that.

[helena handbasket]

Snowboarder I was thinking the exact same thing! I think most parents have the same bag of tricks, wether by instinct, advice or parenting books. Some babies accept it, some don't. It's easy to be successful at parenting when your child goes with it!

But....... there are plenty of parents out there giving 150% every day just to get a bit of success, while watching their friends do so much less and have it all fall into place. Incredibly unfair and frankly demoralizing if it's you, but it is what it is and you just have to muddle through and comfort yourself that yes, I got this child because I am incredibly strong and can handle it. And in exchange for the hard work I got a gorgeous, brilliant, lovely yet challenging child who I am fully in love with and devoted to. But man can he test my will to live!

[Gubodge]

I always fed both my two to sleep and even the bad sleeper had stopped falling asleep on the breast by about 6 months, allowing me to put her in her cot awake. She never had problems with getting to sleep, just with waking up.

[gwod]

Snowboarder said...

"Luck, to some extent, I reckon. And someone once told me you only get what you can cope with (I'm not sure whether I found that reassuring or not!!!)."

...or, more likely, you cope with what you get!!

[littleEDfamily]

I agree with Vickster and Mellors - the winddown is essential. And we also did the dummy for sleep only thing, and own cot in own room very early, which worked for us. I also agree with whomever said don't cut down day sleeps in order to get an unbroken night's sleep....

Vickster Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> My nearly two year old sleeps like a dream, and

> has done from about 2 months old. Looking back and

> trying to pinpoint what this is down to is

> difficult, but I think it must be down to the fact

> that we are really strict on the nightime routine.

>

>

> Wherever we are, home, holiday, friends/families'

> house, we stick to the same routine around the

> same time. Winding down from about 6 with slghtly

> less entergetic playing, bath at around 6.30,

> followed by story and milk and cuddles and singing

> (lullabies rather than interactive stuff), then

> bed in own cot in a gro-bag (really useful when

> outside of familiar environment). My son still has

> a dummy but it is not used outside the cot, and

> only for dropping off to sleep, it is then

> removed.

>

> I also think a good sleep in the daytime helps

> with night sleeping, certainly at toddler age. I

> know the compulsion if your child wakes in the

> night is to cut down on the daytime sleep, but I

> understand that at this age children still need 1

> 1/2 -2 hours sleep during the day. If they wake in

> the night, it is unlikely to be linked to the

> daytime sleep and cutting down on this will only

> cause bedtime issues because they are over tired.

>

>

> Sticking to the bedtime routine might not suit

> everyone, as it does mean you have to be party

> poopers at the odd family event where children are

> still expected to be participating quite late into

> the night, and cuts down your eating out options

> when on holiday (!), but I think it is a small

> price to pay.

>

> As always, everyone's experiences are difficult,

> but this has worked for us.

[randomv]

I had a terrible sleeper who I often breast fed to sleep until I implemented a routine and stopped night feeds at 8 months. Since then we've had a handful of disrupted nights, mostly down to colds or teething.

A friend of mine took her bad sleeper to Sleep Clinic (!) at around 11 months and was told to firstly adopt a daytime nap schedule that was appropriate to his age and stop feeding to sleep during the day. She was to continue feeding at night initially so that LO got used to a long period of rest and so that there wasn't too much change happening at once. In fact she found that immediately she sorted the daytimes the nights drastically improved and he only woke once for a feed. When this was stabilized she then stopped feeding him at night and just comforted him if he woke - which he didn't often do.

I'm a firm believer in day and night sleep being related and in the importance of a consistent bedtime routine. I also believe (but I know this is not for everyone) that older babies do need to be gently guided in how to settle and resettle themselves when they wake. For us it was the Pick Up Put Down method that worked.

[linzkg]

PS, I wanted to add that I tried the controlled crying with mine and just popping back in and saying shoosh shoosh etc and often just from popping my head back into the room he seemed to think 'ok they're still here if I need them' and he'd go to sleep! In my opinion that definitely helped towards him being a better sleeper ;-)

I totally agree with everyone else in the recent threads - it depends on the child!

But hopefully from this thread you have got lots of different things that you can try on your baby as and when and I'm sure you will find something that suits you and works on the babe too.

[candj]

Yes I agree with day time naps being very important. I have noticed with mine that if they missed their nap or had a shorter than usual nap for whatever reason that their night time sleep was greatly affected. One would think that they would sleep better if they didn't sleep in the day but my two would fall asleep immediately and would be more restless during the night (causing us to have disturbed night of sleep).

[sunbob]

My little one sleeps very well now (1 year old) and is also good at getting herself back to sleep if she wakes up or is feeling poorly. I'm sure this is mostly luck (as others have said) but I do think it may be partly because we were always there for her, picking her up, jiggling her about, standing on one leg at 3 in the morning etc, for the first 5 or so months when she absolutely refused to go to sleep any other way! I think she feels secure now that she won't be left in the cot in the dark indefinately. At about 6 or 7 months my husband left her to cry a couple of times, but only very briefly as she actually stopped almost immediately on us leaving the room; I think that she was just ready to be in the cot on her own at that point and that that point is different for each baby and will eventually come.

[paps]

Hey everyone really interesting reading :))

I know it greatly depends on your child, but its so good to read everyones different approach and allows me and others following the thread to pick up on ideas and approaches - thanks

[randomv]

candj Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I have noticed with mine that if they

> missed their nap or had a shorter than usual nap

> for whatever reason that their night time sleep

> was greatly affected. One would think that they

> would sleep better if they didn't sleep in the day

> but my two would fall asleep immediately and would

> be more restless during the night (causing us to

> have disturbed night of sleep).

Totally agree! If we go out and about and my LO has less than usual sleep I always put him to bed early - otherwise he cries himself to sleep and has a very restless night AND an even earlier morning. Makes no sense but it happens here without a doubt! Funny little critters that they are.

[helena handbasket]

randomv Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I had a terrible sleeper who I often breast fed to

> sleep until I implemented a routine and stopped

> night feeds at 8 months. Since then we've had a

> handful of disrupted nights, mostly down to colds

> or teething.

>

> A friend of mine took her bad sleeper to Sleep

> Clinic (!) at around 11 months and was told to

> firstly adopt a daytime nap schedule that was

> appropriate to his age and stop feeding to sleep

> during the day. She was to continue feeding at

> night initially so that LO got used to a long

> period of rest and so that there wasn't too much

> change happening at once. In fact she found that

> immediately she sorted the daytimes the nights

> drastically improved and he only woke once for a

> feed. When this was stabilized she then stopped

> feeding him at night and just comforted him if he

> woke - which he didn't often do.

>

> I'm a firm believer in day and night sleep being

> related and in the importance of a consistent

> bedtime routine. I also believe (but I know this

> is not for everyone) that older babies do need to

> be gently guided in how to settle and resettle

> themselves when they wake. For us it was the Pick

> Up Put Down method that worked.

Couldn't be more true! Once I sorted out the days (which took a long time and almost obsessive focus on my part) the nights got much better. But I made sure all sleep, day or night, was in the same place, same routine etc.. so that what he learned in the day carried over into the night. It's easier to start with the day because you're up anyway and not just desperately trying to get back to bed. And pick up/put down really does work, although at first it can literally take a hundred times! Wow was my son mad at first! Remembering that they are angry and not actually heartbroken helps......

[lard]

Vickster Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> My nearly two year old sleeps like a dream, and

> has done from about 2 months old. Looking back and

> trying to pinpoint what this is down to is

> difficult, but I think it must be down to the fact

> that we are really strict on the nightime routine.

>

>

> Wherever we are, home, holiday, friends/families'

> house, we stick to the same routine around the

> same time. Winding down from about 6 with slghtly

> less entergetic playing, bath at around 6.30,

> followed by story and milk and cuddles and singing

> (lullabies rather than interactive stuff), then

> bed in own cot in a gro-bag (really useful when

> outside of familiar environment). My son still has

> a dummy but it is not used outside the cot, and

> only for dropping off to sleep, it is then

> removed.

>

> I also think a good sleep in the daytime helps

> with night sleeping, certainly at toddler age. I

> know the compulsion if your child wakes in the

> night is to cut down on the daytime sleep, but I

> understand that at this age children still need 1

> 1/2 -2 hours sleep during the day. If they wake in

> the night, it is unlikely to be linked to the

> daytime sleep and cutting down on this will only

> cause bedtime issues because they are over tired.

>

>

> Sticking to the bedtime routine might not suit

> everyone, as it does mean you have to be party

> poopers at the odd family event where children are

> still expected to be participating quite late into

> the night, and cuts down your eating out options

> when on holiday (!), but I think it is a small

> price to pay.

>

> As always, everyone's experiences are difficult,

> but this has worked for us.

I second this, especially the sleep in the lunchtime. Less than 1 1/2 hours at lunch does not mean more sleep at night. In fact the opposite.