Labour candidates in East Dulwich

[i*Rate]

Can I add my comments to the above about '..keep the Red Flag flying' and subsequent remarks. Ever since Labour re-invented themselves as the New Labour 'Champagne Socialists' in 1997, purely to appeal to the middleclass, disillusioned Tory voters, they have done very little at all for 'working class' people. I remember, as a local government officer, how staff and management were amazed at how Labour put through even bigger cuts than the Tories when they got back into office. But, did'nt they find money to pay private consultants at every opportunity they could - it was never good enough to use the knowledge and skills of long-term staff who were experienced in their own particular field. And when strike action was taken, did'nt we get some 'union-bashing' from management when we returned to work the next day. Just look at their current ministers and passed leader, are'nt they all doing well; Tony's made millions and good old John 'ordinary nothern bloke' Prescott is in line for a wacking great pension. Yes, I am a real 'working class' person, I embarrass my middleclass friends sometimes with the way that I speak and my ranting, but I have a very good memory of what has gone on over the passed thirteen years. Now, how do I vote? the Tories disgust me, but I don't want to let the formely socialist Labour party down - therefore the Liberals are very tempting and good for them.

[????]

Well said Irate. Whilst I don't share your vision of socialism, I do agree that Labour hardly represents the Working Class at all now. It's increasingly a party of white collar public sector workers and professional politicians - just look at the figures on where it's candidates come from occupationally, far narrower than the Tories or Liberals. Sadly one of the results of this is that in some areas this has benefitted the BNP. It's hard to make a case that the Labour party represents the poor or working class at all now, clearly neither do the other parties but that's not where their heritage is.

[SeanMacGabhann]

What policies benefit the bnp. And what is it the bnp offer? People are far too quick to shout down politicians but quite a few voters should be told they are plain wrong as well. Bnp = no excuse

But but but.

No. None

[????]

The BNP go round saying we're a white working class party and we won't take you for granted like Labour has for years and that wins votes, and quite a lot of them because the 'labour taken you for granted' part has some resonance. That is a fact not a piece of morality. It may be unpalatable and I know we both agree the BNP are a buch of idiotic racist thugs but the argument works for some and Labour's ignoring of the 'white working class' is part of the reason why. Come on Sean we're dealing in raelities not all sitting around a dinner party table agreeing that the BNP are beyond the pale and then sticking our hands over our eyes and ears. May not be right, might not be comfortable but that's what's happened in certain traditional working class areas of the country. I'm a bit worried about a few seats in the country and sadly include Dagenham in that...

[SeanMacGabhann]

I'm not denying it's happening - I would just be more vocal with my family and friends in that camp

The white working class is no longer a proletarian lump - as you know it comprises many white collar jobs as well (many of whom are the worst offenders). What has changed from when Labour used to say "We won't take you for granted" is pretty much everything. Back in "the day" the island nation had a stock of manufacturing industries which relied on what is known as "the white working class" - it just ain't like that any more. So no - Labour can't honestly say they look out for them like they used to. This doesn't mean they are thrown to the wolves tho. the BNP aren't doing "well" just because Labour have abandoned them. they are doing well because a number of prejudices are believed and stoked

Show me a reason given by someone to vote BNP and it's pretty easy to point out the contradictions. Their great grandfather who talked down Moseley and co would have had a harder life but now it's understandable to vote BNP? No it isn't - the people who vote BNP, the people who would say Labour has abandoned them - I'm pretty sure there are plenty of people below them on the totem pole. They are just being selfish, lazy and bigoted. Just like people at the opposite end of the spectrum earning a fortune who threaten to bugger off if tax is raised

Both are real. I get it. I'm not going "la la la la not listening". But no government will change ideas like that. |Friends, families and peers pointing out how wrong such views are MIGHT make a difference. Better that than saying "oh I do understand...."

[????]

But saying "I do understand" (NOT I do agree) is a better start than "you're beyond the pale racists". But on that basis you can at least get to 'show me a reason why BNP is a sensible vote?' and that, as we both agree, is a straightforward argument to win because there aren't any!

[Huguenot]

I think there should be little doubt that there's a segment of the population who create a personal identity by engaging in a bigotted tribal mentality.

They put the blame for their perceived misfortune at the door of people 'outside' their tribe. The easier these 'enemies of the tribe' are to identify, the better: bowler hats or skin colour are easy targets.

In times gone past, Labour's talk of class war and oppression was a magnet for these people. It's easy to see how New Labour's more practical and inclusive approach to running a government, and the rejection of values based on civil conflict, have reduced their appeal to tribal yobs.

I don't think these tribes have considered political views at all, I don't think they've been 'rejected' by Labour and I don't think they believe in the BNP. Like Milwall fans ('no-one likes us, we don't care') they want to feel hard done by, they want to be victims, and above all they want to have someone to hate.

The sad thing is that voting BNP doesn't necessarily mean that someone is part of this unattractive tribe. Some people who vote BNP have brains that don't work properly, are easily lead, or think it'll impress their slack-jawed mates.

You can only really appeal to this mob by feeding their prejudice and sharing in their hate. It's up to you if you want a national government that does this.

[dc]

deleted

[Huguenot]

I didn't think the BNP had a local candidate?

They really are a foul bunch.

[dc]

deleted

[Huguenot]

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