Voting to remain

[TheCat]

root Wrote:

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> TheCat Wrote:

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> > Getting very sick of some media outlets and

> people

> > on social media implying that leaning towards

> > voting to leave automatically means you're a

> > racist or xenophobe. Because seemingly there

> > couldn't possibly be any other reason that

> might

> > be a valid consideration for such a huge

> economic,

> > political, and social decision.

> > ...

>

> Actually you summed it up. The only reasons to

> leave the EU are racist and xenophobic. The

> delusion that by virtue of being English you are

> better than everyone else and Europe and the rest

> of the world will crawl to you on their knees

> begging to be invited to your birthday party. The

> delusion that your kids and grandkids will have

> more opportunities growing up on this island

> (well, part of one after Scotland and Wales

> secede) instead of part of a 500 million strong

> and culturally and economically diverse

> continent.

>

> Other reasons do exist, such as being a total

> troglodyte who doesn't like European constraints

> such as environmental policies whose long term

> sustainability a free market or local short term

> gains don't guarantee.

the weather must be lovely in the utopian bubble in which you live....

[root]

Loz Wrote:

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> root Wrote:

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>

> > Actually you summed it up. The only reasons to

> leave the EU are racist and xenophobic.

>

> As a solid Remainer, I would say that calling the

> other side names really doesn't help.

merely stating a fact. It's either ultra nationalism, or xenophobia, or breaking free from environmental regulations. There's not much else.

[TheCat]

root Wrote:

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> Loz Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > root Wrote:

> >

> --------------------------------------------------

>

> > -----

> >

> > > Actually you summed it up. The only reasons

> to

> > leave the EU are racist and xenophobic.

> >

> > As a solid Remainer, I would say that calling

> the

> > other side names really doesn't help.

>

> merely stating a fact. It's either ultra

> nationalism, or xenophobia, or breaking free from

> environmental regulations. There's not much else.

I find that an astonishingly simplistic view of a very complicated debate. By your logic, then we should actually be pushing for a global union, where there is no such thing as borders or countries. We're all just Earthling's after all....

[root]

TheCat Wrote:

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...

> > troglodyte who doesn't like European

> constraints

> > such as environmental policies whose long term

> > sustainability a free market or local short

> term

> > gains don't guarantee.

>

>

> the weather must be lovely in the utopian bubble

> in which you live....

No such thing as Utopia, but structure, consistency and capacity. I used to call the UK home but given the antagonism I've even personally exposed to over the past months in the build up of this English nationalism I'm seriously considering giving this country the middle finger and moving somewhere where people are more civilised.

[pato]

Also it was Cameron , if we all remember, that came out with Brexit..

I think He wanted to use the argument to obtain as much as possible from the EU and...he did as UK still have advantages on the incoming people in compare to other countries..

Once He done that he completely changed his mind on the referendum and some Boris , with nothing else to do to try and shine and become prime minister, took the ball to conduct a campaign against Cameron..

Think politics here are taking advantage of people for something that has to do with personal power and massive egos!

This think started just to scare the EU to get as many advantages as possible

It was silly of Cameron to expose the country to people like Boris and the right wing that are taking advantage just to put down Cameron and get more votes with easy publicity....they are only using this argument..

Furthermore I don t think this is a matter to be resolved in a referendum! It is too complicated really to understand what will be the consequences. They are well paid to take decisions rather than making up a mess out of nothing (a better deal from EU) and now are asking to normal people to step up and decide....

not sure we can, it will be playing lottery whatever comes..

best of luck

[Earl Aelfheah]

@thecat - that's not a strong economic argument in favour of Brexit though. you seem to be saying that there will be a negative economic impact, but that it may be relatively short lived. Do you think long term we'll be financially better off and if so, why and on what evidence?

[pato]

Any of You really believes You can understand the consequences of what You are called to vote now????

Any of You really believes any of your argument about economic social impact is based on something that can be remotely linked to what happens for real in the future...??

Any ..from the bus driver to a doctor a nurse a housewife ....do u really think You can decide on the basis of any fact?

[Loz]

root Wrote:

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> Loz Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > root Wrote:

> >

> --------------------------------------------------

>

> > -----

> >

> > > Actually you summed it up. The only reasons to

> > leave the EU are racist and xenophobic.

> >

> > As a solid Remainer, I would say that calling the

> > other side names really doesn't help.

>

> merely stating a fact. It's either ultra

> nationalism, or xenophobia, or breaking free from

> . There's not much else.

Only if you take the extremist view of subjects where there can be hugely differing degrees of disparity. I think a country should keep a semblance of its culture and should have some control over its borders. And 'breaking free of environmental regulations' isn't, as far as I've seen, ever been an issue.

So, no, you are not stating facts. At all.

I think you're looking at things in far too much a black-and-white view. There are many shades of grey to a lot of the issues. And, again, I say all that as a Remainer.

[pato]

The only thing is gonna change eventually after this referendum is Your prime minister....and it s all about that..

Only a fool will believe You can make the right decision but surely you are called to make a decision

referendums are for things like abortions drugs etc not for this.

[Mason]

Did it not steal, survive and live on half the worlds assets before or am I missing something in history.

[????]

pato Wrote:

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> The only thing is gonna change eventually after

> this referendum is Your prime minister....and it s

> all about that..

>

> Only a fool will believe You can make the right

> decision but surely you are called to make a

> decision

> referendums are for things like abortions drugs

> etc not for this.

you have a very European trust in your 'betters'...oh only the elites know. We got in via a referendum. Anyway the EU ignored the referendum on constitutional change from France and made the Irish do it again until they got it 'right'.

Plus what Loz said about Roots' prejudice rant - ironic given I presume you (root) think you're the 'free thinker' to spout such a bunch of stereotypical nonsense. There are plenty of people who are questioning the direction that the EU is taking; the lack of political engagement it engenders; and the longer term prospect for it; who aren't swivel eyed bigots who think Britain is superior...

[Earl Aelfheah]

So if you think the EU has problems (I agree), how does Brexit help? Unless we are to stop trading with the EU, we'll still have to deal with it, still have to abide by EU regulations, but we'll have no voting rights and no influence on its future direction. Exit doesn't achieve reform, it hampers it.

[Earl Aelfheah]

http://blogs.lse.ac.uk/brexitvote/2016/05/27/dear-friends-this-is-why-i-will-vote-remain-in-the-referendum/

[TheCat]

rahrahrah Wrote:

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> @thecat - that's not a strong economic argument in

> favour of Brexit though. you seem to be saying

> that there will be a negative economic impact, but

> that it may be relatively short lived. Do you

> think long term we'll be financially better off

> and if so, why and on what evidence?

agreed, its not a strong argument in favour of brexit, but it doesnt really favour remain much either. What im saying is that from what I've read, the economic impact either way is largely the same (apart from short term downturn in brexit case). So while the economic argument is the most important for me, my conclusion is that it doesnt matter either way. Therefore, my decision will be made based on the other factors...immigration, sovereignty etc etc

[Otta]

Let's be honest, there are those on the leave side that want to leave for all the racist reasons. But that doesn't mean for a second that wanting to leave is automatically racist.

[Otta]

There are plenty of far left "leavers". They're just as bat shit crazy as the far right ones, but for very different "reasons".

[TheCat]

Otta Wrote:

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> Let's be honest, there are those on the leave side

> that want to leave for all the racist reasons. But

> that doesn't mean for a second that wanting to

> leave is automatically racist.

agreed. It just winds me up when some media and other try to paint it as such, which for people who are undecided has the impact of perhaps not letting them explore the decision properly, for fear of being branded a racist if they even look into the option of voting leave. It's shutting down debate to label all leavers as such and is not constructive

[Jeremy]

Otta Wrote:

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> Let's be honest, there are those on the leave side

> that want to leave for all the racist reasons. But

> that doesn't mean for a second that wanting to

> leave is automatically racist.

You're right of course. It's obvious, and shouldn't need to be spelled out. But hey.

[Earl Aelfheah]

I really want to hear a cogent argument for leave.

[uncleglen]

(The fascist 'root' seems to have made up his/her narrow mind that the leavers are sub-human one way or another....)

I am voting leave because an organisation that sits back, watches a million at least, or so, of other EU citizens descend upon the UK and then has the bare-face thieving cheek to fine us for breaching pollution levels year in, year out, and it has not had it's own finances ratified on audit for 19 years- is less than trustworthy.

The EU machine is out of control- it operates under some kind of Kafka-esque inhumane power crazy blinkered administration- swallowing up our money and no accountability- and it is stupid to think that if we are out of it anything much will change, since before it existed we all traveled around quite easily.

Most of the people who want to remain are self-serving trogladytes- politicians who want a job in the EU for a start

[Earl Aelfheah]

Jeez, this is depressing

[Loz]

Otta Wrote:

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> There are plenty of far left "leavers". They're just as bat shit crazy as the far right ones, but

> for very different "reasons".

I think the most interesting part of the whole referendum is that, even with the mixture of left/right on both sides, traditional traits are showing... that is, the right fib outrageously and the left call anyone that doesn't agree with them names.

[red devil]

What's more depressing is that uncleglen worked in edyoukayshun...

[rendelharris]

Otta Wrote:

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> Let's be honest, there are those on the leave side

> that want to leave for all the racist reasons. But

> that doesn't mean for a second that wanting to

> leave is automatically racist.

You're spot on, Otta. But I can't help feeling (and it is just a feeling, no evidence) that given the way the Brexiters have played the immigration card so frequently and so hard an awful lot of people have come to see this as the deciding issue of the referendum and will vote accordingly. That's as much a fault of the Remainers (of whom I am a fervent member) and their limp-as-a-stick-of-celery campaign as gobshites like Boris and Gove, of course...

[Blah Blah]

Ah uncle does it again, claiming that only those wanting a job in the EU are for staying - but wait a second. Just remind me which party has the most MEPs - yes that would be UKIP, the party that wants us to leave.