Chris_1

Someone made a comment earlier that Lambeth aren?t engaging over Croxted - this is a lie. Lambeth councillors have repeatedly raised to Southwark how bad the situation is and how residents on Croxted, Guernsey, Hawarden and Dalkeith all started complaining about how bad it was when timed restrictions were brought in. Pretty sure the letter the Thurlow Park ward labour Cllrs wrote is in the public domain, or should be anyway. It calls for some kind of northbound corridor to deal with the morning chaos. They reaffirmed this request again post the minimal changes that were announced. If our village Cllrs are saying different, it?s just not true. And as for the more not less argument that keeps popping up? we keep asking for anyone to do something here on CR, and all we get are commitments to have more meetings at some point later down the line.

That was raised/suggested at one of the meetings we have had over the last year with various councillors/MP but unfortunately nothing has come of it. It?s a bit like the ?main road measures? term that periodically gets thrown around (More not less, main road measures next - etc). All talk and no action.

The working group has met a couple of times apparently, there?s been some chatter with TfL about the Herne Hill junction but anticipate this will be very slow (multi year - if at all). I?m not sure if they are meeting on a regular schedule or if it was just a couple of chats so they could say they were working to help Croxted.

Really awesome turnout, well done Dulwich. Speakers & marshalls did an excellent job. So encouraging to see people from all over the area coming together.

Makes for pretty depressing reading Bicknell

Totally agree, and should not be controversial. Publish the raw data.

Oh no I missed the bike one, looks fun

I was there for probably 40-45 mins and at least 2/3 cyclists came through at that point without any problems, went between the boxes and whizzed off up the hill. Plenty of space for everyone, despite it being the biggest gathering at that junction to date I think!

Thought it was a pretty nice, friendly turnout to be honest. Seemed like a decent number of people - and I was quite late. Didn?t look like any cyclists had any problems getting past or anything either. All very civilised really.

Croxted was a disaster tonight as well. Cant believe there?s still nothing from Southwark on this

I should add as well, their bus time analysis again attempted to downplay the issue, focusing on average all day times - admittedly still showing a statistically significant set of delays? but ignoring peak times - you know - when people actually want to get places? and where the data is MUCH worse. The council knows about everything I?ve outlined above. Let?s hope they pay attention. Re: the lights, yes I was hopeful too. There appeared to be improvement in June. Unfortunately this has not carried to September and schools returning. I wonder if June was assisted by older teenagers being out on exam leave, because unfortunately we are very much back to square one at the moment.

I haven?t dug into every single datapoint presented by the council, but as a Croxted Road resident I did look in detail at our numbers. The council report said traffic was down - off the top of my head I believe -14%, compared to baseline -12%. We couldn?t understand this given what we were seeing every morning. Fortunately there is extensive TfL data available because of the traffic lights (SCOOT system - isn?t it funny the things you end up learning about). I think they had examined traffic in both directions, over the entire day. This technically does look at our road but, timed restrictions only apply one way (Northbound) and are timed (AM/PM), so by not looking at these specific circumstances an accurate picture is avoided. Maybe that?s important for comparability elsewhere in the report, or maybe it?s a tactic to window dress the numbers. My hunch is the latter but maybe I?m a pessimist. If we look at the morning session (7-10am) northbound, using TFL data, where there?s like 5+ years of daily history? You can see an INCREASE in traffic volume on weekdays - For (maybe Feb was flat, can?t remember) Feb/Mar/Apr/May, despite lockdown measures impacting early on? and against borough wide traffic which was down. TfL congestion measures also exploded higher, from ~5-10%, on this specific route into the junction - eg the PRECISE problem area, up to around 40%. This is massively significant because the TfL data starts at 7am, vs times Restrictions at 8am, so these numbers are understating the true impact (cause no congestion 7-8am skews the numbers downward). This data set also avoids baseline selection issues because it?s comprehensive since 2016 ish. So, the consultation report comprehensively fails to properly analyse our problem. And this is just for one street. Maybe it?s all ?bad luck?, but how can it be trusted for any other street?

Dunno. Not sure I?m sufficiently pessimistic to think that. Suspect it?s more a lack of resources and expertise.

rahrahrah Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > The evidence so far is that traffic has dropped > across the wider area, and active travel has > increased significantly. EDG is the exception and > one of the few perimeter roads where there does > seem to have been an increase in traffic. That > needs to be addressed - but the evidence on the > Dulwich LTN, and on LTNs more generally, is that > they reduce car use and increase active travel. I > also expect (and again, evidence from similar, > longer standing schemes would support the > expectation) that modal shift will continue over > time - possibly even pick up momentum. I know a > number of people (myself included), who have > changed their behaviour since the introduction of > LTNs and further encouraged by the pending ULEZ > extension, are looking get rid of their cars > altogether. Of course this is anecdotal, and time > will. > > What will definitely not improve upon the previous > situation is returning everything to the previous > state. By definition. This unfortunately isn?t the case for Croxted Road either, the published council data appears to examine all day volumes and both directions - obviously the problem direction is northbound consistent with timed closures only currently being northbound, and to get an accurate picture you need to look during the problem hours. Fortunately TfL provides all those stats. I?m not sure why the report didn?t flag this. Average daily volumes are up for the morning session northbound on our road, despite borough wide volumes apparently tracking down 12%. Average daily increases varied from mid single digits to low double digits from Feb onwards - eg higher despite Feb still having some lockdown measures. I?m very concerned about what happens when traffic volumes normalise ? and who knows if that 12% ?reversion? will increase everywhere (probably not due to LTN), or if it will disproportionately impact main roads. We?ve also seen massive increases - anecdotally at first - and statistically thereafter (thanks TfL) in congestion on our road. I?ve found it a bit frustrating. The data report should be used to paint an accurate picture of what is going on, instead it seems like it is lacking in quite a lot of ways, which makes me think it?s a bit more of a political item ?look at what a success this is?, versus being an objective analysis. Unless our road is the only one that has been analysed incorrectly.

There was a comment earlier about traffic count on Croxted Road - and how confusingly it looks down. We looked at TfL SCOOT data just for the direction that?s actually impacted by the LTN - eg heading north towards HH, and at the timings that roughly coincide with timed closures (data 7-10am) vs timed closures 8-10am. Traffic is up over that period - I don?t have the stats in front of me but something like 3-5% in each of Feb/May and up north of 10% in April. Obviously fair pushback would be that I?m cherry picking the worst of it to look at - my comment would be that this is the problem time so it makes most sense to look at that. I think the data presented in the council report was all day and both directions - the road is pretty quiet outside of peak times (outside of timed closures times too), and there?s no impact southbound from the LTN. Suspicion is that south is down a LOT, north is Flat-to-up depending on whether you look at peak or all day. Congestion is way up, can see that thru the same scoot data set. Would have been helpful if the council had broken out the data in a few different ways, I try hard not to be a pessimist but it does appear like at least for our street a fair picture has not quite been painted.

I do hope they?ve recognised the need for tweaks. Croxted road was never an idyllic country lane pre pandemic but the traffic moved and it never really backed up too much outside of the worst of morning rush hour and even then it wasn?t back eg as far as the Pymers Mead estate. I?m pleased that it (finally) seems to be getting paid some attention and I do hope the other boundary roads that are suffering the same fate or worse get the help they need too. As for your comment Rockets about ?votes?, I?m still really dubious whether any of these stages of the consultation actually means anything. The council must have been inundated with negative emails (most of the people I speak with on this street have written). Streetspace comments are like, 75% negative or something like that... and yet we?re still forging ahead, full steam, with no tweaks. I do worry a lot that it?s a foregone conclusion.

I think that was the best one of the meetings the council has hosted so far - although that might be a function of the bar having been so low following the first two meetings. I think my group was fairly similar to most: hard to disagree with the governing ideas (do you want clean air? Do you like nice things?) but overwhelmingly against the current implementation. School streets, or very brief timed closures to facilitate clean and safe travel for kids was pretty broadly supported. I was encouraged - as someone who lives on a boundary road, and who has been massively negatively impacted by the measures (specifically Turney and Burbage restrictions) how many times groups seemed to comment on the impact on boundary roads. One thing that has amazed me is the extent to which people have lost confidence in the council. That feedback was abundantly clear from my group at least - no trust that the review is anything other than an exercise in ?going through the motions? and the outcome is already predetermined. I don?t know that today remedies that - comments in the chat suggested not all of the group summaries were quite so glowing as the groups reported. I really hope they take feedback onboard and modify some of these schemes to make life easier for people on boundary roads. Suspect hopes might go unanswered.