TE44

Sephiroth.what has happened through government policies world wide is not a distraction. How do you pick and choose what is to be believed when you know governments have tried to cover there mistakes.you say above none of the effects of the policies put in place eg suicides, job loss deaths etc matter much if we lose to many people to a virus we don't know how to deal with yet. This makes no sense to me, that people should be put through the most cruellest situations, lives absolutely lost, the whole world thrown into uncertainty, poverty a certainty, when for years they have been looking and planning how they would deal with a worldwide pandemic. We have seen confusion with figures, we've seen confusion with tests and an overall confusion with accuracy that has nothing to do with the virus. Hopefully the people who have made decisions that have took lives will be made to answer for there part in this. When the professor and journalist became emotional it was because it does matter what is happening to the vulnerable, the dying, without respect for death the respect for life diminishes.

Sephiroth, we absolutely should be frightened, of losing our jobs, of worrying about vulnerable people we love who we may not be able to come together with, sick children who won't be able to have there family around, people in care home who we already know has been treated criminally and some still not able to see there families. A media that is distorting the truth. A government that I believe has no empathy and is changing laws that will take away choices and freedoms we had. Yes I believe there is plenty to be afraid about. Every year there are viruses and flus that can be a killer to vulnerable people. Where the likelyhood of dying is a reality. I myself understand this, but this is how life is each winter. No I am no more concerned with this virus than I am with the flu that is no doubt coming. I am concerned and fearful of the continueing decisions being made by people I do not believe have our best interest at heart.

I can't quite understand how this has become an issue with politicians considering this is no longer used and seemed to be done through choice. Unlike many people who recieve it in psychiatric care without choic. Hopefully this will be a subject the government will also get involved with. https://medicalxpress.com/news/2019-01-electroconvulsive-therapy.html

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-49838964 Here is that story

I was particulary appauled by the electrical aversion therapy. I've read this treatment was also used for alcoholics. I read a case from the 70s in Ireland where a gay man recieved this treatment although the article says this treatment was abandoned, I will try to find it. This young guy was looking for a cure. Its got me thinking about Electro convulsion therapy which is still used often without choice. I would hope nowadays that being gay is no longer associated with something wrong.

Johnl its fascinating looking at plants and viruses, fungi etc. It really shows how connected we are with nature. I would say look at eugenics organisations within people,I'd put a link but I'm out for the day enjoying the changing seasons.

No it isn't just our government almost all governments have acted similiar, making the same mistakes and continueing to spread fear whilst at the same time taking away our choices and dividing people, families. As the professor says they never report any news that is possitive. There management is causing more deaths than the virus. Information is being withheld from us. A statement was made by Louis Appleby from uk prevention of suicide regarding reporting figures in real time. This is not a reflection on the system set out which often sees stats added for suicide as late as a year after. There are suicides where the police will not close the case, as it must go through the process but will say no suspicious circumstances. Mental health groups were looking for a rough statistic, not a solid figure but alook at cases in real time that were not being investigated by police. This did not happen, I would be very interested if anyone working in this field has been given any figures. We really have no udea how many people have died down to the policies put in place.

https://www.ed.ac.uk/profile/richard-ennos Sephiroth here is a link to professor, you probably googled him already. He has never been in public domain before as he states in the video. Im sure he says he does not know if he would have spoken out if still working, he is now retired. I suppose it depends on who you believe is being open and honest. Who is recognising the benefits and who really cares. This man was overwhelmed by the cruelity of what we are seeing. I have never saw or felt any real concerns for people from many of our government. People knowing they are dying having to decide how they can work out there last days where they can see there families, disgusting.

Ok j.a. so nothing to say about professors views. I think your language shows more about you than me.

Just spoke with my friend and she has told me about gay conversion therapy, I absolutely agree it should be banned. She has not heard of it in this country, she said its used more in America. I would imagine this is a private treatment.

Hi niledynodely, I have just googled gay conversion therapy, I didn't realise that was offered as a treatment, I have neverknown anyone who has been or spoke about this. I do know people who have had a response by family , where they have suggested goiing to the doctor when they have told them they are gay. It was a long time ago and may still be the response by some. Where is this therapy offered? After googling I see Boris Johnson has mentioned it, speaking of banning it. I honestly did not know it existed.

Any points in particular j.a. do you believe professor Esson to be a dangerous lunatic to. Its good to know you can sleep well knowing the people creating our new reality are keeping you safe, so simple to follow.

Interview with professor Richard Esson, great points and refreshing to feel people who are sincere.

Its interesting reading for me but then I don't particularly mind if I don't agree with different views, i can still relate with some. I know weird concept. yes, also believe right and left wing are being redefined in these recent climate Alice. Anything else.

https://www.thepublicdiscourse.com/2018/12/46417/ An interesting read that brings up many things I believe should be open for discussion, siduhe refers to homophobia but there is a huge problem within the Lgbtq+ community especially around trans issues. Again I do not have a problem with peoples choices around identity but I believe there may be people within that group that may need to reach out for the help they need, as I believe that help should be there for all children including sexually abused, intersex and other problems which they feel isolated with. This does not mean I do not believe there peers cannot be part of that help nor that they would not benefit from understanding, in fact I think the opposite. Ithat is why I believe great care should be taken when individual agendas overshadow others.

Siduhe, Again I will say I have no problems with same sex relationships, gender identities or any labelling of oneself. I have a problem with putting children into positions where it may be disrressing for them. I Have a problem with parents not being alowed a choice. I have a problem with people prejudiced to others beliefs and can only see there own agenda. I have a problem with people who can only assume the wors about people if they don't agree with there own beliefs. Yes you may call it plain and simple, I believe its a more complex problem.

SeenBeen ok lets have an example of bringing it out in the open in the classroom sitauation.abused child who rolls dice, anus/ object childs answer push object up anus till it bleeds. Rather restricting for a child who may have endured this whilst able to add a few other dice sides to that. Are you seriouz seen been do you really believe these lessons are a place these experiences can be shared. Of course not, the abused child will sit alone with secrets carried from young with the knowledge and awareness this does not happen to everyone. Edied to add this link incase my post was upsetting to anyone. https://wgac.colostate.edu/support/sexual-assault/healing-from-childhood-sexual-assault/

https://unesdoc.unesco.org/ark:/48223/pf0000260770 Here is a updated Unesco report. I cannot see (by sections) where there information on dealing with sexual abuse is, but will look later. I agree children should be taught to keep themselves safe, accept different relationships it is the material being used that is causing a divide. I don't believe children nor myself as an adult want to know nor discuss details of peoples sex life regardless of there relationship, whether it be same sex or other, which I have no problem with.Many peoples sex lives would seem perverse, and may well be in relation to what webelieve to be normal. I personally feel as long as people (over legal age) consent and are not harming, abusing, anyone else I really don't care. I think its a dangerous situation to open and question norms around techniques in sex, I also have no problems of teaching children around differences but as I've already said, many children will already be aware of same sex relationships. This is being taught by not only there parents but adults around them. There is so much hatred around gender issues I think it would be a better idea to make a toolkit for adults.

Sidhue i am not saying I am against sex education, i am saying its a subject that should be inclusive. Where it brings children to recognise difference without taking away the fact they can still relate.A concept we as people seem to be moving away from.

Here is a more recent report regarding this particular toolkit. Including concerns from Tanya Carter a spokeswoman from Safe Schools for Alliance. She recognises "children who are victims of sexual abuse may findthis type of kesson material traumatising" The OP started this thread to inform us about this particular material along with looking at parental choice. There are many different reasons parents differ around this material being taught, whether they agree or not. Children come from very diffferent background. Many where they live with there abusers. I can see situations where abusers would welcome this material. Whilst the free from abuse adults may well sit at home comfortably with there tolerance and openess, unfortunately this will be very different for other families. https://www.ibtimes.co.uk/new-sex-education-tool-kit-young-children-launched-amid-criticism-1682692

https://learning.nspcc.org.uk/child-abuse-and-neglect/child-sexual-abuse If you look at work and help suggested here for children who have suffered sexual abuse, I do not believe some of the RSE material is appropriate. Many children who have been sexually abused face a lifetime of PTSD. This thread is focusing on inclusion, the problem seems to be when the inclusion is focused on one agenda. Different issues need policies for different beliefs and circumstance. Hopefully ones that can actually teach adults to be more understanding of differences while holding respect for others.

Siduhe, I believe people do not want to look at sexual abuse, I believe many people are only interested in subjects highlighted where different views have created divide. I also believe people will choose to be standing on the high moral ground and convince themselves they are more understanding, less non judgemental than people who think differently to them. Within this sex education you make an assumption this will give children a chance to speak out about sexual abuse. Can you give ne a link to show this is happening.

Thanks niledynodely. I was speaking with some friends who are extremely worried about what is going on. One of my friends who was groomed from a young age until she ran away, believes some of this material feels very similiar to what she experienced. Now she can see it from an adult perspective she believes if she had encountered this at the age of 13 it would have normalised what she was already going through and caused great confusion. What a priviledge it is to be progressive and liberal when you have not had to face sexual encounters before the age of puberty.

I am nor religious, my grown up children have since being young always been aware of different lives as is my grandchild. This is not about the subject, I feel the op has been clear in stating this.It is not that difficult to be tolerant of peoples beliefs without assuming the worst of people. It creates a society that silences and does not and encourages an all or nothing understanding. I dont have to agree with everything someone says or disagree with everything someone says because we see differently over certain things. J.a. you are a perfecrt example by your comment about me being "an anti vaxxer nuff said". I find this attitude dangerous. Its an attempt to cancel people out and a touch of bullying,although I don't feel bullied.

I think its pretty obvious by your posts j.a. you need to look at what you believe tolerance means. I cannot see how this subject can be taught without choice as it goes against some family beliefs, and concerns, this may cause the child distress. Many people would already have had conversations regarding how different people live, I don>t believe many children would reach 13 and not have had conversations with there parents, and know many people who live very different from themselves. I find there*s a huge contradiction with a lesson being portrayed as teaching tolerance and difference when this country and others are so divided on this issue for many reasons not only religion yet this is being made mandatory regards of peoples views and beliefs. It shows no tolerance for differences.