TE44

Keano, do you think a movement for change should only involve people who live without room for change.

https://inspiringcity.com/2019/09/29/graffestival-marks-the-last-days-of-the-nomadic-community-garden/ Unfortunately Nomadic Gardens held its closing Graffestival a couple of weeks ago, amazingvplace.

Ha ha penguin68, i'm sure there would be an allowance then.

Has there been any reply from council OP? Has there been any previous problems with grafitti in this area or is this a one off.

The saying is a reflection of violent language evolving. I have heard it used in children with there brothers, when I asked if they understood what it meant they clearly did although recognised they were "obviously" not meaning that. Would there be any kind of grafitti acceptable where this was done,

I think the sayin is, snitches get stitches, jousant, although I can't see clearly from the photo.

I passed through the street today. There was at least 15 kids, different ages, playing on the street. It was a joy to see, and a chance to spend time with neighbours.

https://www.veolia.co.uk/london/facility-open-days Open weekend.

I think this scientific view has also reflected on our thinking today, where there is a struggle to understand or respect others observations without it taking away your own beliefs.

Interesting Johnl, Science has made great advancements and continued to learn, it seems the only thing that is absolute (im assuming this means no room for another way to observe it) is change, which is pretty exciting if we can recognise that without it taking away what has been found and allowing different observations.

Cardelia, I don't fully understand your explanation but it makes sense that what is observed or measured in the context of this discussion can take another form even though it may not be measured or observed or even recognised. I'm assuming in the scientific world this is commom knowledge Newtons first law has been broken.

Blah blah, I type very slowly (also dodgy phone) the last posts were written and posted whilst I was typing, so i'm slighty behind ha ha. Davis I have not read your post as it is not easy for me being someone who struggles with institutionalised learned words, I will read later. I am curious as to where these questions being discussed fit in to the here and now for you.

Blah blah.I imagine everyone connects to the unknown in there own way. Isn't that what relion is.Stories have been a way of giving people a voice who may ofen not be heard. Not everyone uses logic myself included to connect with the unknown. Looking at herbs, you may wonder why peple knew there healing properties long ago, that science are only now able to prove,Religion saw people who were connected with plants, herbs as a threat and were frightened because they could not understand how people could know. This also has carried through the ages, but It is more than just religion that causes people to feel so threatened by one another. It is possible to hold to seperate different truths without having to understand them mechanically.

Davis Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > I understand what you are saying; however, just > because we do not know everything it then does not > mean we have to deny what we do know. > > It is illogical to deny what is known based on > what is unknown. Would you ever apply this > principal to your daily life? I guess not, so why > apply it to your core belief? Davis I notice you have edited this post, which cause confusion with context for me, although I di not feel you have changed it greatly. In everyday life there is an acknowledgement of the unknown, whether it be with conversatikn with others, looking at our assumptions or seeing something new to you. It is not a question of knowing or not knowing, it is both. I believe the idea of one or the other, has evolved into our everyday life through this quest for the ultimate answers, this is not denying the amazing discoveries in science. The law for a concept, the belief of the learned, the proof. Edited to add other.

John I am not sayinv you can"t observe because of uncertainty, i am saying it is sometimes incomplete. Uncertainty is the little bit between knowing the best thing to do but behaving in a manner against that, cognitive dissonance.

Davis, Sorry I am rushing out but briefly, i am not denying what is known, I am saying there is set knowns that people have different views on, how do you know what you know,there are other ways people reach what they believe to be true, as we cannot ignore what is known we cannot ignnore other ways of knowing. . I actually do apply this to my everyday life. Have not time now plus my fone is playing up again.

Davis, I understand constars exists, however although it is necessary, I believe this need to prove ( which again may be necessary) has led to an acceptance of truths that may be incomplete. Lets say we look at how a washing machine works. We can say its constant. As a singular manmade peice of equipment. If one part was taking from the workings it most probaly wouldnt work.if looking at this part seperately it would have no attatchment with the job it does in the machine.of course putting it back in the proper position or not,would determine whether it would work. When studying things to prove there existence it would only be observable looking at the bigger picture, which is forever changing. I do not have any set belief as how the universe started, I learnt at school,very briefly, as in the ape to man picture, as a young child, I saw it only as a may be. I've never been inclined to look at the science,around this issue, and believe an intolerance to different view has been bred from this desire to be right. This feels restrictive and also is often only understandable to people who have a certain education. This has disconnected many people from having or s,peaking there views. In a way not that dis similiar from how you say Darwin viewed native people.

Davis, Do you believe observations and measurements are always accurate? Something may appear to have come into existence because it has changed form, maybe from something we have no understanding of. Transformation, change is constant.

Science has made amazing discoveries and affects most of the systems we rely on today. Unfortunately the downside has been a seperation and disregard for nature. What is natural, we as People have become disconnected. I agree blah blah there is a superiority among us, that has evolved in history, to believe we have or must find answers to the mysteries of life. I personally don't care what people believe where the start was, that may also or probably not be finite either. We are where we are now through what has been learned. For my children and there children I want to have nature as a choice.

Davis I have not read any of darwins theory but what you say resonates with me. There is an undercurrent of past ideas that are part of so many systems we rely on. Words like resonates Can be part of a belief system which differs from hard facts, in that it is the blending of facts With how I feel intuitively along with other things I feel to be true. I also believe past history has an impact on how you are looked upon If you use intuition.Davis you have we my appetite for a book on Darwinism by Julian Huxley, been in my attic for years.

Seeing things through the eyes of others can often be difficult depending on the subject, but there can often be some common ground if you can enquire and listen without judgement or without advocating your own views to the point you are deaf to others. Hard facts through whatever method plays a big part in our evolution and may somehow had an effect on our thinking.certainty and hard facts do not often go together.if explaining how a pram works, yes the basis of how it works stays the same,it is a simple fact. The more complex and overlapping issues become it is often difficult to hold only an acknowledgement of hard facts alongside personal experience, intuition or whatever beliefs you hold. Things are forever changing, that can sit comfortably with the feeling of nothings goin to change. I agree blah blah I think it is relevant in todays climate to be looking for solutions and understand through conversation hopefully sterilising the breeding ground of hatred.

Sorry not ver clear my post above, couldn't see what I had typed. I suppose we all feel some dissonance on different levels. Holding and understanding two viewpoints that are contradictory does not have to cause dissonance, This has been suggested to me when speaking to others on this forum around my beliefs and choices, I had never heard the saying before. Not taking this off topic. On reading about Fastinger and his experiments I felt it was a term that could only be recognised by yourself and by your actions. Not everyone that say is diabetic will feel dissonance whilst eating something they fell they shouldn"t be. Its interesting to hear how people behave to get rid off the feeling.

Does anyone know how to pay with cash. I know someone asked before but phone is playing up, thanks.

What a great thing to do, thanks to Sarah.

How do I know what I know, seems a simple enough question, when looking at our own beliefs and assumption where they come from, how we learn, what we rely on etc. Having similar beliefs with others where the same action or decisions are taken does not guarantee the same morals. It depends which situation you're looking at. To observe lets say 2 different heroin dealers as simply commiting an act of what appears to be selling drugs to make money. On hearing two very different stories it may be your judgement morally differs with each when understanding of the people, individually, outside of there action is learned, creating no dissonance, then again it may be on your estate where your children pass each day, and you feel threatened, once we feel threatened it breeds a cutting of point for many, or else a battleground for each side to have Inclination to see it through each other view.