Matil

Given that the area is mostly residential, capturing the working-from-home population from a commercial angle, with a more community-driven business model might be more feasible. What about a flexible gym/activity space, a bike repair shop, possibly a nursery, a cafe and co-working space combined? Effectively giving working adults in the area a space to work in a more social setup while they can leave their kids nearby. More of a shared communal living space for a fee. The local vibe is mostly residential, so why not tap into the needs of the existing population and maximise that homely characters than trying to make it something else. Talking purely out of my wild imagination 😉 (did I say a small petting zoo 🐔🐰 in the garden area of the Grove Tavern?)

Idea: Working NEAR HOME space - the pub building re-purposed for commercial co-working space? "hubs like Patch are located in residential areas, a walk away from people's homes. A range of companies are vying to grab this market in local, community co-working hubs." https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-67334476 This could be the future of the Grove Tavern: Possibly? I like the idea that the space can be hired for business as well as other community purposes, be if for a fee. And (wishfully thinking!) to keep the skatepark mostly intact, the building ground/basement levels for paid gym/activity spaces, maybe.

EVENT CANCELLED for Sat 8th July Sadly, there were paperwork oversights which I couldn't make it work in time. Luckily, the majority of equipment was cancelled in time, so no massive financial loss from this setback. We're hoping to find a licensed venue in the area for the DJ/bands to enjoy the Open Stage, nevertheless. We will find our resilience and energy in the support we received from the ED forum 🥰

EVENT CANCELLED for Sat 8th July Sadly, there were paperwork oversights which I couldn't make it work in time. Luckily, the majority of equipment was cancelled in time, so no massive financial loss from this setback. We're hoping to find a licensed venue in the area for the DJ/bands to enjoy the Open Stage, nevertheless.

Everyone is welcome! The DJ & bands are eager to impress the unsuspected Dulwich locals 😎 Whatever the noise they are emitting, you can certainly appreciate their devotion and energy. "looking a little out of place" haha, there's no 'correct' way to enjoy. Any attendance is equally appreciated! 👍

Hello, I'm posting here a heads-up for increased noise level (you might have seen this already on other threads) Sat 8th July 2023: Noon - 6pm (free entry), there will be an Open Stage amateur music live event in the Grove skatepark. Please note, the scale is smaller than the very loud 2 x past professional music events (I wasn't involved in neither). Nevertheless, you are likely to notice of the increased noise level. 1. I obtained a Temporary Event Notice for the upcoming event from the Southwark Council, and the local police is aware of the event too 2. The scale of the upcoming Open Stage is a lot smaller than the very loud 2 x past events 3. We guarantee to stop the noise by 6pm because the hire company needs to start de-rigging at 6pm sharp We have a smooth techno DJ from noon to kick off, but some bands can be quite noisy 'hardcore death punk' genre, so please be warned of the non-melodious frenzied beats and deathly roars coming from the Grove on that day... This is a free event, so you're very welcome to pop in, otherwise please accept my apologies for the more-than-usual noise level. I'd be grateful if you could pass on the info to your neighbours. This event means a lot to the teenage DJ/bands who's been practising hard in the run-up to this event. Kind regards, Tilly -The Grove Skatepark support-

Hello, I'm posting here a heads up since it sounded like you are all close to the Grove Tavern site. Sat 8th July 2023: Noon - 6pm (free entry), there will be an Open Stage amateur music live event. Please note, the scale is smaller than the very loud 2 x past (professional) music events - I wasn't involved in either. Nevertheless, you are likely to notice of the increased noise level. 1. I obtained a Temporary Event Notice for the upcoming event from Southwark Council, and the local police is aware of the event too 2. The scale of the upcoming Open Stage is a lot smaller than the very loud 2 x past events 3. We guarantee to stop the noise by 6pm because the hire company needs to start de-rigging at 6pm sharp. We have a smooth techno DJ to kick off, but some bands can be quite noisy 'hardcore death punk' genre, so please be warned of the non-melodious frenzied beats and deathly roars coming from the Grove on that day... This is a free event, so you're very welcome to pop in, otherwise please accept my apologies for the more-than-usual noise level. I'd be grateful if you could pass on the info to your neighbours. This event means a lot to the teenage DJ/bands who's been practising hard in the run-up to this event. Kind regards, Tilly -The Grove Skatepark support-

mrwb > police in the area From my experience, just enough number of people out and about deters opportunistic crimes, doesn't have to be police because the perpetrators know all too well that any adult with a phone (and sense) is a hotline to the police. They just know when & where no-one is looking. It only takes a pair 15 seconds to finish their job, but if there are enough people around, the risk of them being seen & tracked down increases, so they're deterred - they instinctively know where the weak point is in any given circumstances - I wish they use their keen sense of observation & split-second decision-making ability for good but, they know what they're looking for and know when to strike (& when not to). Just more people being out and about naturally closes off that opportunities from arising - without needing the police. So if you're going for a walk, you are already doing a great community service by being present out there while doing some good for your own health ;)

If I had my crazy way, I'd love to see the building retro-fitted to keep its shape & internal structure as is, and the ground/basement level for paid indoor activity space including skateboarding or dance/yoga spaces (floor plan can be kept just like the pub used to be with split-levels, skaters will find ways to enjoy such 'challenges'), above it, some shops/cafe/pub with plenty chairs for parents to chill out while let their kids go wild in the activity space (maybe with TV screens in the seated area streaming the activity space), and a small performance stage (music/theatre/etc) on the top floor with more seating space. Above all, an indoor activity space is my biggest dream - when you dream, you gotta dream big! :) I also fancy a bike repair workshop on the pavement along the Lordship Lane side, but generally speaking, would love to see the building kept its look and turned into multi-functional community hub, so, sorting office/police station etc are good call too.

The footage is created specifically for the Dulwich locals to know the background of this quirky community space. Have your cuppa handy and settle in for a viewing :) *Rating [PG] - some swear words in it, but as colloquial emphasis/interjection. The Grove (20 mins) - by Nick Vieweg ^ A documentary film (YouTube) following the birth and growth of a community space in Dulwich since 2020, going strong ever since!

If there has to be housing there, I'd say a high-rise with ground level or two for communal/commercial space, simply because the site is facing 2 sides of busy roads with emergency vehicles screaming pass any time of a day, and slow traffic around the junction spewing out sooty fume while waiting for the traffic lights. Closer to the ground level is simply not suitable for permanent living. But build a high-rise and give the lower levels to non-residential purposes might work. The housing of any kind should be physically away from the traffic, be it horizontally or vertically.

Film maybe released eventually (will post in ED, of course), but the gem of this event is to get a sense of the Grove community and have a bit of cosy (but well-ventilated) indoor event. Shame you can't make it but, hopefully this is not the last we can invite Dulwich folks to! :)

Hello! We're from the Grove skatepark (520 Lordship Lane) This season we are doing a proper gardening led by greenfingered skater chaps and looking for adhoc volunteers. Don't need fixed committment but occasionally we need extra hands to shift bulky stuff etc. This Thursday 3rd March (time not confirmed), we're going to bring in 2 tonnes of soil & would appreciate if anyone can help with it. https://www.instagram.com/p/CaEfvQLN7dO/ It's all very informal & friendly. If you are interested just keep an eye on this thread and turn up when you can. There's not much planted yet but you are more than welcome to come in and have a peak at our progress so far. Just please be mindful of skaters zooming around when you walk across the skatepark, stay around the edge is one way to be safe for both you & the skaters. Probably the best time to take a look is in the early morning or rainy day when the skatepark is expected to be quiet. Feel free to follow ^our gardening insta above for the latest, or dm me should you wish to!

That's fine. Kinda expected but these guys can throw weight around council's decision on planning permission, so better to get to know them even at a distance. We'd rather not passively let this thing slide so any channel that is relevant to our survival, we're interested (though they might not be!). But thanks for the heads up bruv. It'll be a less of disappointment if your saying is turned out to be true. > You are joking - of course! The Society won't > take any notice of you, the only people it takes > notice of are the people on their little cosy > committees. Not including some committees by the > way, just the ones with certain people meddling > and so I doubt the planning lot or the grand > committee will take any notice. Sorry bro.

Thanks for the Dulwich Society's link! I might join the society so that I can gauge views on the skatepark & have a dialogue with the local people directly. I'll look around their articles first. The skatepark is still in limbo in terms of survival but even so / because of it, we're determined to make the spot as good as it can be. An Olympian & his crew visiting the Grove on their own accord is a testimony to what we've been trying - a skate spot built by the skaters with love & passion ;) Glad to hear the vid is enjoyable to watch! Glemham Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Here's a link to an excellent account of the Grove > Tavern Saga which in 2022 will ?celebrate? its > 10th anniversary. This Saga has it all: a brewery > owned by a hedge fund, incompetent landlords, a > toothless local authority, and an amenity society > so enamoured of Dulwich's past that it has > seemingly little interest in its future. > Meanwhile the Grove DIY skateboarders put them all > to shame. > > https://www.dulwichsociety.com/journal-archive/130 > -spring-2020/1872-the-grove-tavern-saga-by-mike-fo > ster

Hello! A video here!! For your enjoyment, the team GB Olympian skateboarder Alex Decunha and his crew graced our spot back in Aug 2021. We didn't ask them, they just decided to come in :) It's a great recognition of our local spot, and we're very excited to see their excellent tricks in our familiar scenery!

Penguin68 Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > I think that, when > development starts, you can kiss goodbye to the > skatepark. And indeed any amenities for the local > young people. ... > Amended to say, in the light of the earlier post > (cross posted) - maybe they are still resisting > change of use from a pub! Penguin68 Yes, losing the skatepark would devastate many young people who survived the depth of pandemic winter months hanging around in the skatepark. They forged friendship and allowed to be 'just kids' in a brief moment when they were there. They have deep emotional attachment to the skatepark so when some of them fond the Planning Notice they were really distressed - they are normally tough as nails but I could see their sharp pain in their facial expression.

legalalien ianr Thanks very much for digging into the details! Much appreciated 👍 Yes, now I get the fundamental point of what this "Article 4 Direction" is - safeguarding the quality of development from botched / willfully inadequate development. Which is totally reasonable. Initially the skaters who found the notice didn't understand the implication (who would, to be fair) and quite stressed out about it thinking this is an immediate beginning of a development and the end of their beloved skatepark!😫

Hi ED folks! I spotted this Planning Notice (photo attached) newly posted outside the Grove pub building yesterday. Although the Display Date says 'August 2021' the notice only appeared yesterday. The Grove car park is currently used as a DIY skatepark by the community and I'm wondering what the implication of this Planning Notice would be. I know this Planning Notice is informing the public that the entire Grove site (id NSP35) now falls under the NSP scheme which has a stricter development criteria, but is this precursor to an inevitable new development? Has anyone received a public consultation letter from the council? I believe any new development on the Grove site will have a significant impact on the skaterpark users and potentially displace the community (of mostly youths) which has been growing organically by having that weird & wonderful DIY space. Has there been a similar scenario in the past e.g. an "Article 4 Direction" notice posted and a development followed? Any examples/stories you can share regarding "Article 4 Direction" and/or "NSP" sites would be greatly appreciated. Thanks :) [[[ The extracted text from the notice ]]] Article 4 Direction: New Southwark Plan (NSP) Site Allocations outside of town centres - NSP35 The Grove Tavern, 520 Lordship Lane Southwark Council made non-immediate and immediate Article 4 Directions on 28th July 2021 under Article 4(1) of the Town and Country Planning (General Permitted Development) (England) Order 2015 (as amended) ('GPDO'). The Direction applies to development in Southwark's NSP Site Allocations outside of town centres noted in the following classes of the GPDO: Class MA, Part 3 of Schedule 2 to the said Order as it relates to changes of use from Commercial, Business and Leisure (Class E) to a dwellinghouse (Class C3). This Article 4 Direction will come into effect on 1 August 2021. Class ZA, Part 20 of Schedule 2 to the said Order as it relates to the demolition of commercial buildings and construction of new dwellinghouses. This Article 4 Direction will come into effect on 1 August 2022. Development of the descriptions set out above should not be carried out on the land shown edged red on the map annexed to the Direction, unless planning permission is granted on an application made under Part 3 of the Town and Country Planning Act 1990 (as amended). ------

Hello ED! The Grove DIY skaters recently had a collabo session with a work wear brand Dickies. We had a proper film crew and all that for our build day, and this is the uplifting 2mins footage they produced in the end. This sparkling footage wouldn't have been possible without the huge community support we received in the summer of 2020 and since. We thank you!!

Skaters by default need reasonably tidy surface to skate, so it's in our own interest to keep the place (at least the tarmac bit) litter free :) All work is done voluntarily by local skaters, so it might get messier at times but it'll be cleared eventually. Local business is also helping us by taking bin bags, so it's truely a community effort. It might not be always picture perfect but we have system in place to keep the spot functional and maximum number of people happy!

Just adding a related topic (main thread here) /forum/read.php?5,2174022 One of the local skaters recently launched a photo book (?7 - for fund raising) featuring the pics from the build phase in the summer of 2020. Please see attached jpg image for a flavour. All profits will suppliment the cost of materials to allow us to continue with builds & improve the quality of the spot. Should you be interested, please visit our official website: https://thegrovediy.com/ Thanks!

This thread is an off-shoot of the older thread "skateboarding at the Grove Pub car park" (posted: 30th July 2020) /forum/read.php?5,2134693,page=1 We are still going strong as of Dec 2020, thanks to many community supports given by the people on this forum. One of the local skaters recently launched a photo book (?7 - for fund raising) featuring the pics from the build phase in the summer of 2020. Please see attached jpg image for a flavour. All profits will suppliment the cost of materials to allow us to continue with builds & improve the quality of the spot. Should you be interested, please visit our official website: https://thegrovediy.com/ You can purchase the book or simply donate if you know us well enough :) !!

The Grove DYI featured in the South West Londoner News site. Article: https://www.swlondoner.co.uk/grove-diy-skateboarders-ramp-up-charity-effort-while-fighting-to-save-vital-dulwich-park/ Video report by SW Londoner news: Stemmed from young skaters' desire to skate during the lockdown turned into a community project. Amazing stuff.