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Sue, My wife and I are a couple of those affluent over 60-year-olds that don't deserve Freedom Passes (according to another thread on the forum)so my wife was able to spend ?50 on a skirt in Mrs R sale. When you spend that sort of money, as a treat on a limited income, you don't expect to have to put a piece of quality clothing in your SNUB bag with the fruit and veg! Kindest regards - maybe see you at Harrods one day - Pip, pip.

Zebedee Tring, Good for you for the facts that you have stated about unpaid taxes by the rich and how British pensions are low by EU standards. I would also like to add that for anyone under 40 you will not remember how high income tax was in the past. I think that I've earned one of my very few benefits - a Freedom Pass - after living in London all of my life, working for forty years and paying as much as 33% Income Tax in the 1970s. By the way, have you noticed that MPs pensions are not being touched?

Hello KalamityKel, sorry, but I think that you are wrong about not being given a bag in a fashion shop. They're usually made of recyclable paper so there's no issue with the environment. Try walking down Oxford Street one day, or maybe ask someone that runs a fashion shop to explain about the bag/advertisement idea. When YOU reach the big 6-O and beyond, you'll notice these things. Cheers and no hard feelings.

A little comment on ageism in Lordship Lane shops. My wife (of a certain age) found it quite hard to communicate with the young girls in the Mrs Robinson shop clothes shop, she did get the impression that they were embarrassed to have someone like their mum or gran in there. However, to prove the point, when my wife did buy something they actually asked her if she wanted a bag. Has anyone heard of a fashion shop that does'nt want it's name being carried around the street to advertise it? Only if it's not keen to have the 'Old Dear', M&S image put about. I've also found the girls in ED a bit embarrassed to serve me. However, top marks to the most polite and cheerful young black woman who serves in the greeting card shop in North Cross Road. Plus, nearly all the cards are made in Britain and printed on sustainable-sourced paper; always a pleasure to shop there. Cheers.

Dear Willard, Thank you for your apology, you are obviously a kind and decent person. I think that we can agree to differ on this subject and long may the debate continue. Kind regards.

Willard, This is my last posting about this subject because I do feel that I am not a match for someone with your intellect and education; I mean this sincerely and without any hint of sarcasm. You are correct about my use of the word ultra and maybe my comments about black and Asian children was wrong, unfortunately I never managed to pass O Level English Language or English Lit' at school and I really know very little about Latin. It was quite bad mannered and unkind of you to be so sneering. What you are most correct about, though, is that I do have a chip on my shoulder about anything connected to class/schooling and status in the country. You probably have no idea what it was like to grow up in a working class family in London in the 50s with parents who were manual workers and who never had any books in the house. Just managing to get a white collar job was a struggle, let alone becoming lower middle class as I am now(I think?). With respect then; good luck to the Free Schools, maybe they will do some good for the next generation.

Willard et all (a bit of Latin there), I just looked up the Free School in Hammersmith so that I might make a fair and reasoned judgment of it after all of my recent comments on the Forum. Well I was quite surprised at what I found, because when I saw the list of governors (alongside Chairman, Toby Young) I know now that the school is actually run by a ULTRA upper/middle class, white elite (with the exception of one Public School educated Asian (?) gentleman). Interestingly, two of the governors have backgrounds as Councillors for the borough council who are selling the new premises to the school and giving planning permission for it to be set up - so no conflict of interest there then ?!. However, I do hope that some black and asian children from the local council estates in the catchment area of the school get places there so that they may aspire to become doctors or lawyers one day. Sadly, there are few council estates in that smart area of the borough, they are mainly in the north around White City, so this is going to be unlikely to happen. I wonder if anyone though of that when they sited the school? Pip, pip.

Willard, I was surprised to hear that you did some filming at the Free School in Hammersmith - when did it open? If it is, indeed, up and running, then the Tory council certainly got those voluntary organisations out of that building in a hurry and soon poured in x ?100,000s of public money at a time of budget cutting and job losses. Great to hear that the pupils will learn Latin; so essential for those training to be electrical and mechanical engineers. artisans and software technicians that we so desperately need in this country. By the way, as regards objecting to this sort of school; ha ha, anyone who knows the borough now knows who it's run by and who befits from these sort of schemes. A right wing government coming up with a genuine plan to help working class children better themselves - I don't think so!

Dear dondini, well done for taking some action over this great local amenity. My wife and I first took our younger son there in 1982, our granddaughter over ten years ago and I took my younger grandson there on Tuesday; so I go back a long way. The difference now is that there are only two staff rather than the four or five as there used to be, but the staff are good especially Maureen and many thanks to her for her hard work. As for the new playground, Councillor Gavin, someone said that it cost ?40,000 to built, does that sound right? Considering that the main feature, the Play River, was shut down very soon after the official opening because of flooding, then it does'nt seem a great use of space or public money. The Play River floods because water does'nt run uphill, as the site does; will the Architects be back to put this fault right, hopefully without any cost to Southwark? A pity that some of that money was'nt spent on the other playground near the pond, where there are only two swings for small children that you have to queue for. I do hope that us parents and grandparents will have this FREE local facilities for many years to come, it would be a disgrace if it was Privatized.

rahrahrah, Any relation to Toby rahrah Young? A superb idea, just like they are doing in Hammersmith, where voluntary groups are being evicted from an old mansion house so that a Free School (ie; school for children from rich middle class families) can be built using public money. What's special about the school is that it will be a public school with no fees - clever plan. Unfortunately, Southwark is a Labour-run borough now and they won't be pleased with the idea AND think of the impact it would have on JAGS, Alleyns and Dulwich College plus all the extra coaches busing in the pupils - social chaos! Pip, Pip.

alik, Many thanks for your info on HACAN; thank goodness there is some kind of campaign to make it known how bad the situation is for people living on the flight paths. I will have a look into what they are doing. When I made my earlier comments on the The Forum, I pointed out that things had certainly got worse since I moved to ED in 1980. OK, I know we all have to accept that there will be more air flights (and cars) in the world a time goes on, but the noise now has become unacceptable at times. On many days recently, I have found that the flights passing over my home average around 35 per hour which means that there is actually no break between the sound of each one (no silence). These continuous flights then continue for hours; on Sunday for example they went on for five hours, early evening until 10.30pm - so not chance on enjoying the hot weather by having a meal in the garden. The volume also disrupts watching TV or listening to the radio, let alone trying to think clearly about anything. My suggestion is that all airlines concerned and particularly BA,who seemed to fly over the most, give us in ED a gift of a community facility from their profits. Maybe something like a playground or a garden or even our own mini version of The London Eye with all rides(flights) free?! Kind regards to all.

Penguin68, Many thanks for you information, we seemed to have got a fair amount of good historical detail now on the thread. Even more thanks to computedshortly - wow, some really hard work there. Kind regards to all.

SimonM, For your benefit and other local historians (and apologies to everyone else for restarting this thread after so long) I took part in a CND'Bunkers Are Bonkers' peaceful protest over this REAL nuclear bunker some time in the 1980s - can't remember exact year at the moment. The bunker was (or is still) deep underground and equipped with radio and provisions, situated in front of the golf course club house with an air vent sticking out of a grass mound. At the time Maggie Thatcher had bought, or been given, one of the brand new Barratt houses on the new estate off the south circular. A female protester broke into the bunker and had to be arrested and forcibly removed by the police, meanwhile my fellow protesters and I marched across the golf course carrying our banners. We were escorted by a police helicopter and several mounted police from the Lordship Lane Police Station, which had stables at the time. Some voices were raise but no one was injured and I do hope that it contributed to World Peace. At the time we were all worried about the start of a nuclear war that would destroy us all (apart from the people in the bunkers), but what a long way we have now come to a very different world. Now, peace and light reigns everywhere, conflict seems a thing of the past and all around the world, people enjoying a secure, simple happy lifestyle. HA,HA,HA.

Hi david_on_grove, I've commented before on this issue on the Forum and someone made the remark that aircraft just seemed louder and more frequent. Then someone else sent in a graph showing flights to/from Heathrow since 1985 - they were up by 140,000/annum! I'm really getting fed up with the noise now, as I work at home, and during the warmer months I do like to have some time in the garden listening to bees buzzing and birds singing or maybe just get a bit of peace and quiet. I just don't have that now and it was definitely quieter when I moved her in the 80s. I've checked out the flights and frequency and it all seems to start around 6.00am or earlier and goes on until 10.30pm or 11.00; so really the CAA just allows us about seven hours to sleep. The flights get to be continuous now, as one passes over the next appears - less than two mins between them so really no silence inbetween. Do we have any rights in the matter, or could we get some compensation (Ha Ha)? Will this put people off moving to ED; I've had enough of it? I'm thinking of taking up my case with Southwark's Noise Pollution section - I let you all know how I get on. Fasten your seat belts. Regards,

Just a word in favour of the (very helpful) staff at the ticket office on behalf of all persons who have travel cards and Freedom Passes. There are plenty of trains at the weekends apart from the odd times when there is engineering works and this station is a lifeline to older travellers who like to travel by rail and avoid driving. There are many persons in ED who are of a certain age who need to buy a ticket using travels cards and/or passes and get some advice on the cheapest route. This service is certainly provided very well by the staff there. So - Save Our Helpful Ticket Office!

Monica and Heather, My wife can donate a good number of Russian Comfrey plants from her allotment. Very healthy medicinal plants, used also for compost and plant feed and the type that does not reseed and take over the plot. Please let us know when they you will be ready for them to plant up in the new garden. All the best and kind regards.

Friernlocal, I saw it around midday on Wednesday and took some photos which I've sent off to a Street Art website in New York. They have'nt used it so far; maybe it's not as amazing as some of the stuff that they carry from all around the world. Well worth having a regular look at the site if you're interested; www.woostercollective.com Cheers.

Loz, My reply to you is that when I was young, apart from their being many apprentiships available, I chose to go to Art college to study design. I got a small grant to live on and the college fees paid, based on my parent's (low) combined income. Fast forward to my children's teenage years; they just got loans to pay university fees and I helped them with everyday expenses when they could'nt find some work in the holidays. Those fees have taken many years to pay back. Now, ?9,000/annum university fees, very few part-time jobs, high rents and little affordable accommodation and at the end of it big debts and a good job? Yes, there may be more higher education available now, but for the better off. Don't forget the statistics for families judged to be living in poverty in this country, not much progress there to be proud of. Still, let's see what brilliant ideas the 'Oxbridge Trio' come up with in these difficult times, after all they've all had great education and worked their way up from humble beginnings - Ha,Ha,Ha. I do hope that this is a reasonably, argued point of view given my higher education qualifications 'A' Level metalwork and London Certificate of Art & Design. It was great, though, to see local people getting together to clear up - The Blitz Spirit (before my time). Cheers.

peterstorm 1985, These 'riots' reminded me of some drama/documentary or other that was on TV a while ago which put forward the idea that all the govenment needed to do was send in more police to quell trouble amongst the poor of the country to ensure that the rich were protected. That's effectively what's happened now and I am very upset that the poor and Working Class communities have now damaged their own areas - a very, very sad thing. I was one of the lucky Working Class people that got a decent education under a real Left Wing government in the 1960s and managed to make a good life for myself and my family. Those principles were damaged by Thatcher and finally destroyed by New Labour and, it has been proven, the gap between the rich and poor has grown significantly over the last twenty years. As for the 'solid moral society' that we live in; look at the bankers, politicians, Police, pop stars, businessmen and sports personallities and notice the greed, tax-dodging, corruption, dishonesty and immorality amongst them. These are the Role Models today and who's in charge The Ruling Class, like they always were. Poer to the people! I rest my case.

Huguenot, Many thanks for the graph (I notice that they have spent passengers wrong) - it DOES prove my point. Flights to Heathrow have gone up by over 100,000/annum since I moved here in 1980, that's not including figures for 1980-85. No wonder they're driving me nuts! Fasten your seat belts.

Hi Freddy1929 - Yes, very good theory about Burgess Park. We really had a bumper start today - nearly two hours of a solid wall of sound from 6.00am onwards and I'm sure it won't stop until about 10.45 tonight. Funny how a private company, that is there to make money, seems to have the right to inflict noise pollution on thousands on Londoners and get away with it. What does Southwark do about it? Do you think that I would get away with taking the silencer off my car exhaust and driving around Willy Walsh's house every two minutes, starting at dawn? Mind you it does start before dawn too; I remember being woken up by the sound of a Jumbo Jet at around 5.00am in February this year. Why don't they wake up passengers on those long-haul flights with the sound of jet engines, just like we have to put up with. Oh, and by the way, before anyone says; "Why not move", A; it costs money, B; this is my family home for 31 years and, when I first moved here I go woken up by blackbirds singing - Virgin Atlantic, etc were'nt around and certainly no planes low flying like they are now. Maybe we'll all run out of fuel soon and go by bike like Boris - Ha Ha Ha

Monica, What a wonderful idea to bring something full of life to a now derelict space. I am sure that you will get a lot of support for local people willing to volunteer and supply plants and seeds. My wife and I have visited Chelsea Physic Gardens on a few occasions and it is one of the best tourist attractions in London. My wife has many years of experience of allotment growing which could be helpful to you, I will keep a close eye on your progress. All the very best to you and hope that this will be a great success.

Silverfox, you snob; get back to Dulwich Village! Good luck pedropowers - yes it would suit the people of this area and fit in well. I'm too old for my first tattoo now, but I would'nt mind some more piercing if you did that too. I'm a great fan of LA Ink on the Discovery Channel; if you are really successful maybe you could invite Kat over. I can hear her now "This is East Dulwich, Babe, where anything can happen; I'm Kat Von Dee and this is (insert name of your shop)". Cheers!

I've had terrible problems with the recycling bins - dividers going missing, bins thrown onto plants in front garden and being left outside other houses even with a number on. Worst thing is getting bike tyres punctured by broken glass which is left after they drop things from the bins. I've e-mailed to complain but things don't change, but I do agree that we are lucky to have a regular collection service and Southwark is at least trying to provide a good service. I've 'opted out' now and I just walk or cycle down to the recycling centre on Peckham Rye and dump my items once a week. Good exercise and no worries about finding the bin.

Probably result of turf wars between the local crack dealers - you know how bad Dulwich Village is getting. And what;s going on in that boarded up church with the scaffolding outside? That used to a pretty respectable area once; I remember when the DV folks used to stick their noses in the air and would'nt cross Lordship Lane - now they better stay on their own patch! Keep 'em out of The Cheese Block, I say!