silverfox

Sean raises an interesting point about this judgment that deserves some serious consideration and the matter cannot be dismisssed simply as the media jumping on the bandwagon or a storm in a tea cup. Like most people I haven't read the whole case review and judgment but the nub of the matter is that she said the following: "I am going to suspend this sentence for the period of two years based on the fact you are a religious person and have not been in trouble before. You caused a mild fracture to the jaw of a member of the public standing in a queue at Lloyds Bank. You are a religious man and you know this is not acceptable behaviour." (See bbc url below) Note that Cherie Blair has made the point that Shamso Miah is religious twice. This suggests her words were more than what lawyers refer to as obiter dicta, ie passing comments or opinion made by a judge in a decision that do not form part of the legal reasoning in reaching the decision. Rather it would appear the defendant's religious background formed the reason for the suspended decision. So this throws up a number of legal and philosophical issues. Legally, it may have been the correct decision although you could argue Shamso Miah should have been sentenced for the crime. Yes, mitigating factors and good character are taken into account and if the purpose of the sentence is one of correction then perhaps no purpose would have been served in sending him to prison. I can imagine extreme cases where a person's religion should result in a lesser sentence eg, Jehovah Witnesses indirectly allowing suffering by refusing medical treatment (more a case of omission here than intention). More importantly, I can see many cases where setences should be increased to the maximum tariff where the defendant is religious, eg, militant extremists, shooting people who work in abortion clinics and Roman Catholic priests who abuse children. Phiosophically, there is no justification for holding the view that religious people are somehow 'better' or 'superior' to non-religious people and the judgment raises a whole host of prickly issues as to claims of a higher morality, civic duty, responsibility for our actions, justice etc. In short, this case has sent out the wrong message and there is the suggestion that religious people are better than the rest of us, or a least should be treated more leniently. Personally, I take the view that religious people should know better while accepting we all have weaknesses (or are sinners?). I suppose the best we can say is some religious people are better citizens that some non-religious people and vice versa. (In case you missed it Radio 4 touched on this with Are religious people more likely to be honest? with Anne Atkins and the philosopher Professor AC Grayling) http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2010/02/are_religious_people_more_like.shtml

Please stay on topic

When I used to do something wrong and then explaining my way out of it said "I thought ..." my mother used to reply: "well you know what happened to thought ... he wet the bed and thought he was sweating"

I see Stuart Kuttner stepped down/was moved last summer. As managing editor he would have signed off/approved the invoices. 'Stuart Kuttner steps down as News of the World managing editor' http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2009/jul/08/stuart-kuttner-news-of-the-world-managing-editor-steps-down

Talking about bitching ... Posted by: ratty Today, 11:48AM A fave of my dad's (RIP) "Sh1t said the Queen and the whole court strained!" -------------------- ratty - acting like a @#$%& since 1970 Shouldn't ratty be paying for this self-promotion signature?

Me: "Dad, can I have a quid?" Dad (Jewish): "50p, what do you want 25p for?"

PeckhamRose Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Christ almighty what is so dangerous or > unfavourable or unfair or unreasonable about > reminding people to write a will and GIVE BLOOD! > What is wrong with you! I don't just remind them > I provide links so they can get to the relevant > pages. It's a service! What's wrong with that! > Now you're just being difficult. Nothing PeckhamRose - it's just unnecessary. If you want to advertise pay for it.

Can't people make a payment in kind for their signatures? Eg, if a member of the forum tragically pops their clogs Peckhamrose can do the service and the congregation can give blood and write wills afterwards, Sue or Keef can provide the music with lorraineliyanage at the piano.

Posted by: Roll Deep Today, 12:55PM Edited 1 time(s). Last edit was today, 12:56pm by Ted Max. Not sure what's going on above ... is Roll Deep aka Ted Max?

I've seen the silver 'threp'nee' bits on sale at places like Greenwich Market but I only remember the brass ones. The silver sixpence was known as a 'tanner' the shilling (as brum says)was a 'bob' etc. I don't remember the crown (five shillings) being in circulation though. (posted before I read the above post)

What was a third of a farthing called and presumably there was half a farthing?

Four blackjacks for a penny - equivalent to a farthing each

?1 was equal to 240 pennies

Not sure what it says about East Dulwich but if the Forum now has 10,259 registered users and averages 2,800 unique users* per day, then most people seem happy to keep their own counsel. Posts about dogs and cats seem to draw good audiences. (* figures 30/7/09 from Mark and the East Dulwich Forum Team, 'Some changes to The East Dulwich Forum - July 2009' if citation required)

Ah, I see your point and stand corrected. There's more to this merger than commercial necessity. Thanks

Hang on Huguenot, let me quote from the article you have referred us to: "...The hearing has sat for 148 days over two and a half years and reportedly cost more than ?1m. Thirty-six witnesses gave evidence at the hearing... The doctor, who was absent from today's GMC hearing, faces being struck off the medical register. The panel decided the allegations against him could amount to serious professional misconduct, an issue to be decided at a later date. So, if I understand this correctly, he took on the might of the medical profession and after 148 days and a cost of more than ?1m the interim conclusion is Quote: "...the allegations against him could amount to serious professional misconduct..."

My scumbag of the year vote goes to Bob Crow, the Red Ken of the recession.

Correct me if I'm wrong and by all means disagree with me, but isn't this merger a commercial necessity? We live in the age of the internet, facebook, Bebo and, soon to demise, twitter. Most youngsters, surely, regard paying to see/hear a band as absurd. Everybody now downloads (mostly free). Bowie (in your quote) was certainly prescient. The only people who go to concerts now are the Jeremy Clarkson generation - grey-haired denim wearers who youngsters wouldn't be seen dead with. Ticket master is struggling to sell over-priced tickets to keep bands in the style they were accustomed to. It needs this merger.

Sorry Huguenot, I'm reading this at a late hour. What are you talking about?

Excuse my ignorance but isn't it generally accepted that the proliferation of nail bars/hair salons etc is just drug-money launderering scams?

Let's just say, you'd be better off admiring the astronomological (not astrolological) juxtaposition of the Moon and Mars than trying to 'sniff' 'powder' off a sticky vaseline-coated toilet seat - though many have tried and failed, so I'm told.

Some people look to the heavens for answers. Sniffy prefers vaseline-coated toilet seats for his buzz?

giggirl, Don't despair that your post has been hijacked by ignorami. Not only is it a beautiful full moon tonight but also the Red Planet, now 62 million miles from Earth, is at its brightest this year as it lines up opposite the Sun. Mars is to the left of the Moon, about the length of an outstretched fist away. I encouraged/cajoled my children to look at this celestial spectacle tonight, explaining how the orbit of Mars etc etc and they were suitably unimpressed. Words like 'boring' and 'whatever' come to mind. In short, I feel your pain. You can lead a horse to water ... http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/space/7094680/Mars-and-the-Moon-to-line-up-for-celestial-spectacle.html

Cross post, see below

Osama bin Laden enters global warming debate Demonstrating a surprising concern for the environment, Bin Laden voiced his dismay at recent international efforts to tackle global warming. "Discussing climate change is not an intellectual luxury, but a reality," he said. "All of the industrialised countries, especially the big ones, bear responsibility for the global warming crisis." http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/environment/climatechange/7104143/Osama-bin-Laden-enters-global-warming-debate.html