silverfox

You could always recommend a Sarah Palin Hillbilly Palm Pilot

Strawbs, the reason I wrote 'family' is because it's such an odd set up. If this was a heterosexual couple in Britain they'd probably be refused adoption on the basis they're obese alone. Here are two females who from an early age were unhappy with what nature gave them. They've undergone chemical and surgical reconstruction to become more like males. However, conveniently, Scott, although wishing to be a man mentally has relied on the reality that 'he' is in fact a female to become legally married and also to have a child. Further, they have now become a family. Hence my original question, is this a case of two mixed up individuals playing a potentially dangerous game of mommies and daddies? And coming to your point to Hal9000 that 'Sexuality is who you are and not what others around you are' with these two it seems to be more of a case of sexuality is what you can become and what you choose it to be. This does not mean to say these two will be worse parents than many other parents.

good point

"The housing minister suggested repossession is the ?best thing? for struggling home owners on the day figures showed evictions reached a 14-year high. John Healey?s comments came as statistics showed an average of 126 people a day were thrown out of their homes in 2009. ... As part of The Daily Telegraph?s investigation into MPs expenses, Mr Healey was found to have made a profit of ?88,000 on a flat in south London that was subsidized by the taxpayer for at least five years. He was also found to have claimed ?1,317 to replace his own front door, while he overclaimed more than ?2,000 for mortgage interest. Charities and politicians immediately called for an apology for the ?grossly insensitive? comment, accusing Mr Healey of having lost touch with reality... " http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/7214915/Housing-minister-says-repossession-is-the-best-thing-for-home-owners.html Despite the hypocrisy of his mortgage being subsidised by the taxpayer has he really lost touch with reality or is he being a realist? Does the bail-out of the banks mean everybody now expects to be bailed out of financial predicaments?

Anatole Kaletsky in today's Times: "... For it is now clearer than ever that the single currency will survive this test. And if the conditions that it faces in the Club Med countries continue to deteriorate, the euro?s near-death experience will, if anything, accelerate the march towards a fully federalist United States of Europe..." Do you tink he reads the forum for is inspiration?

?Hillbilly Palm Pilot? Palm-reading Sarah Palin caught red-handed Made me laugh

Oh it's stopped. What am I going to do with 20 pints of milk? Rice pudding anyone?

Blimey, it's like snowmaggedon out there. We could be holed up here for months. Anyone got any make your own dumplings/bread recipes?

Perhaps a beard and cross eyes are not that important after all

Getting back to my earlier point above that France may regret asking that these women expose their faces in public ... Arab ambassador discovers bride is bearded and cross-eyed behind veil An Arab ambassador has called off his wedding after discovering his wife-to-be who wears a face-covering veil is bearded and cross-eyed. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/unitedarabemirates/7204090/Arab-ambassador-discovers-bride-is-bearded-and-cross-eyed-behind-veil.html

Well, you're right about Greece pre-accession. This won't be the last test the Eurozone has to face and it will adapt and reshape its structures. Perhaps moving closer to an American federal model has merit. The ECB has been caught wanting and perhaps some form of a federal reserve might be better. Also, perhaps the presidency should become the supreme executive with real clout so states of emergency could be declared with emergency aid funds becoming available.

More dumplings for the rest of us Titus

According to Newsnight last night nobody's really sure what can be done about Greece as there are no precedents and the worry is if they bail her out this opens the floodgates to more bailouts and creates the seeds of Euro disintegration. Meanwhile the short-sellers are circling like vultures. The member states have been so busy scrambling over each other to sign away their sovereign rights and don the Euro straight-jacket there was no provision made for bail-outs. Correct me if I'm wrong but it seems the ECB is impotent to act on this. So the onus now falls on member states to altruistically guarantee loans, and this includes Britain who is outside the Euro. Thankfully Germany and Belgium look as if they are going to assume this burden. As for Greece, as evidenced by the strikes across the country today, there's only so much pain people will put up with in the name of political experiments.

Archbishop of Canterbury says changes to assisted dying laws will 'cross a moral boundary' Changing the law on assisted dying would be immoral, the Archbishop of Canterbury warned yesterday. Dr Rowan Williams said making it legal to help a desperately sick relative to die would 'cross a moral boundary' and 'enter very dangerous territory'. The Government has ... declined to act to prevent the DPP from taking the framing of suicide law into his own hands. The Archbishop's speech ... came as Mr Starmer prepares to publish within a month the final version of his guidelines, which will set down conditions under which those who assist in a suicide are likely to escape prosecution. The first draft in September said broadly that family members who help in the death of someone who is terminally sick or disabled, and who wants to die, should not be prosecuted unless they hoped to gain something from the death. But the Archbishop rejected that position. He said the present law on assisted dying which means those who help a loved one to die face 14 years in jail 'serves us better than an opening of the door into provision for the legal ending of lives'. Dr Williams said changing the law on assisted dying would 'cross a moral boundary' and take it into 'very dangerous territory'... 'Once the possibility is there, it will not only be utilised by the smallish number of high-profile hard cases but will also create an ethical framework in which the worthwhileness of some lives is undermined by the legal expression of what feels like public impatience with protracted dying and "unproductive" lives.' ... granting a right to die is not only a moral mistake ... but the upsetting of a balance of freedoms'. ... the balance of liberties still comes out against a new legal framework and in favour of holding to the principle, not that life should be prolonged at all costs, but that the legal initiating of a process whose sole or main purpose is to end life is again to cross a moral boundary, and to enter some very dangerous territory in practical terms.' http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1249718/Archbishop-Canterbury-Rowan-Williams-attacks-assisted-suicide-laws-changes.html

8.50am Starting to snow but not sticking yet. No sign of gritters yet. Home-made dumplings or pie today woofmarkthedog?

Do you have Ann Widdecombe's contribution to this event? As a convert her contribution would be worth a look and may provide a good counter-balance to Fry's position.

Okay, let's take a different tack. As I write, across the world, from the worst slums and impoverished villages of the third world to the richest cities of the western world, homeless street children are being given somewhere safe to stay tonight, people with nothing are being given something to eat, clothes to wear, are being taught to read and write to improve their chances in life, wells are being dug, mothers are being given help and advice on child care, those with no health insurance are being given medicine, people are being given training in skills in animal husbandry, the best way to look after crops, to find jobs or start their own cooperatives, loans are being made for necessities. Catholic charities and workers* are quietly getting on with all this because they believe in God, being financed by millions of other catholics who put money in a collection plate and make monthly direct debits. In this sense the Catholic Church is a force for good in THIS world. It's a shame Stephen Fry chose to ignore this side of the organisation. (* along with many other religious and secular charities)

I don't approve or condone such statements but you're plucking at low hanging fruit here mockney - easy targets. Ratzinger's words about the abuse do not imply approval, rather it was an attempt to cover up the scandal of bad priests (much of this has been discussed on the thread in the lounge). The Catholic Church didn't create the aids crisis and is heavily involved in providing care and assistance to victims of this terrible disease. The Church's opposition to condoms is well known and it would be naive to imagine the aids problem will be solved by the Church handing out free condoms. There are plenty of organisations distributing condoms in these areas (and companies making big profits as a result) and not distributing them doesn't make a body evil. Perhaps one of the biggest criticisms that can be levelled against the Church is the speed with which it adapts to scientific and medical advances which cause ethical dilemmas. However it cannot claim to be the guardian of spititual truths and at the same time bow to the latest whims of popular opinion or the preceived wisdom of pressure groups. The Catholic Church isn't the simple monolithic incarnation of evil that some people like to think. There are many branches and camps to it, left wing, liberal, theology of liberation revolutionaries and right wing conservatives such as the present pope. Some of Fry's criticisms may be addressed when the Church appoints an African or South American pope, ie, in the same way Pope John Paul II swung back to a rigid conservative stance with his experience of religion being suppressed under communism, so an African or South American pope who are well aware of the day to day misery of the poverty and inequalities of those continents may take the church in a different direction. One thing is for certain, the Catholic Church will be around when we're long gone and people will still find things to criticise about it. I don't know whether Stephen Fry implied he believes in God when he asked what Jesus would make of it if he walked into the Vatican, but it's a good question.

... stop calling me names because I'm gay and hand out more condoms in Africa and you'll be a force for good in the world ... (cue rapturous applause) Come on, these aren't facts they're opinions of dubious merit. The institution's been in existence for nearly 2000 years, undergone myriad doctrinal disputes, schisms, made many mistakes, educated people, fed people, catered to people's spititual needs etc etc. I feel sorry for Stephen Fry, the topic's too vast and in my opinion he was ill-equipped to try to tackle it. It was more of a square root of intelligence talk than an intelligence squared debate.

Interesting ... he was having a bit of a hissy fit there trotting out unoriginal arguments to a like-minded audience. Disappointing really, I expected a bit more intellectual rigour from Stephen Fry but it was a bit twitter-ish.

1pm.45 Rumours that the new Sainsbury's Local on Lordship Lane experiencing panic buying of bread, milk and flour STOP

1.40pm No news from the school that it's shutting for the next six weeks STOP

1.30pm update: Still snowing but not sticking STOP No sign of gritters on our road yet STOP

In general I agree with Baroness Deech. The obligation to look after parents should fall on the family and not on the state and social services. Obviously this can take many forms and doesn't necessarily mean moving granny into your house. Where the state does have to intervene then property/possessions should be sold to recoup the costs. Families can't expect to reap the benefits of inheritance if they abrogate their responsibilites of looking after those who brought us into the world.

The journalist/headline writer who wrote this deliberately misleading headline: White Cliffs of Dover to be sold to the French to help reduce Government's debt Actual story is about the port of Dover being sold http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1249194/Dover-symbol-British-sovereignty-sold-French-help-reduce-debt.html