alieh

I have the same experience with friends who had a maternity nurse for the first 8 weeks (twins) and their little ones are the exact same age as my 6 month old shocker. Like you say, theirs sleep (from the 11 pm feed to 6 or 7 am mostly). I have spent many hours wondering the same as you! Her twins are exclusively breastfed as is my son, so it isn't a formula issue. I actually spent a week with them on holiday so witnessed their routine every day. Here is my assessment: 1. They are very structured about feeds during the day and she pumps after every single feed in order to have 2 X 200 mL bottles for each baby (one for bedtime, one for 10 pm feed). As they were underweight at birth, they are very used to "forcefeeding" them at regular intervals during the day to try to get their weight up. They spend ages getting these 200 mLs down them at bedtime and 10 pm and eventually they do take it though they're often turning their heads away back and forth trying to get away from the bottle, at which point I would have given up! 2. They leave them to cry, basically. I think this is the key difference. From day one they were fed then swaddled and put down to sleep. If they cried, it was because they were tired as they had just had a full feed (goes the thinking) so I think the nurse advised just leaving them. In my experience, they don't seem like big criers but not sure what they were like in the first few weeks. At this stage (i.e. on our holiday, aged 4 months) they didn't seem to cry that much before sleep, but some days they did get overtired and they did seem to cry for up to 45 minutes at bedtime and they just left them. They also did wake up in the night and yelled sporadically, but unless they really went for ages or sounded hysterical, they didn't go in. After about 3 months the nurse said they didn't need to be fed after the 10/11 pm feed so they just offered water or nothing until morning (sometimes she would feed the boy around 4 or 5 to get him back to sleep but not often). I have no idea what the babies were like for the first 8 weeks with the nurse, or how much they cried, but they do seem like very placid babies generally. So I've determined that the maternity nurse approach would not work for me because I am too disorganised to be that structured about routine in the day with a very young baby (older baby/toddler different) and end up just feeding my guy throughout the day whilst at toddler groups with my eldest (try to keep to 3 hour feeds but not religiously). But primarily, I can't listen to my baby cry. Not judging another approach because I do believe he's often crying out of tiredness, but if he's crying I feel the need to help him. Very long answer but I've spent alot of time thinking about this!

Ah, Snowboarder....it probably doesn't help but your DS2's twin is up to exactly the same antics over here! Not as bad maybe for me because he never slept well, so going from 2-3 wakings at night to 5-6 isn't as bad as 0 to 5-6. Too tired to do anything about it. Also had the same experience with DS1 where he self settled well at naps and bedtime but continued to wake loads at night. Can't be bothered to tackle any kind of sleep training at the moment because I know it will be de-railed by teeth, etc. Speaking of which, we have two teeth and I think some more are about to emerge on top. Could it be something like that for you?

Have you considered wood? We got oiled oak (extra wide planks) for our kitchen and I love them. Soft and don't show the dirt at all. You re-oil them about once a year or so and they look brand new again (this is very easy...just wash floors once and then go over with oil on a cloth). There is a wood floor place behind Forest Hill that has beautiful wood flooring and good prices. Think it is called Wood 4 Floors.

I looked into the Phil and Teds and change bag issue when I was thinking of getting one and someone recommended the Skip Hop saddle bags as ones that fit the P&T well. I think carrying the change bag is a real problem as I'm sure, like me, you're walking loads. For treatment, my husband has had two deep tissue massages from Amy at the Dulwich Touch and really recommends her. Hope something helps a bit!

Oh yes, definitely Freedom by Jonathan Franzen.

Ah, I really need this. I am so struggling on this front. I have two varieties of "routine" for number 2 right now: Days without toddler (3/week): Up at 6 ish (grr) Nap 1 - 8 am for either 45 mins or 1.5/2 hours (never know which) Nap 2 - 2 hours later (45 mins or 1.5 hours...never know which) Nap 3 - 2 hours later (sometimes 45 mins, usually 30) All of these naps require resettling (shushing and patting) at least once or more to extend them Days with toddler: Up at 6ish Maybe nap 1 at home before we go out (see above) Rest of naps in a downward spiral throughout the day in the sling/buggy ranging from 5 mins (yep, 5 today) to 30 mins (not 29, not 31....30) Interspersed with whinging and screaming because he is so knackered Bedtime rushed through at some absurdly early hour like 6 pm because he is losing the plot Ummmm, help??? I am going on holiday with family for 6 weeks next week and will hopefully have the time to dedicate to routine. I think I might replicate the Gina timings above. With son 1 I followed more of the Baby Whisperer approach which was to bring next nap forward if first nap was a bust, adjust throughout the day, etc. But this is just not working this time as I never know what's coming next and it is just so scatty. The Gina routine seems like much less sleep overall than I would have expected (on a good day he naps 4.5-5 hours) but it's certainly more than he gets on a day like today! I think it is the early starts that are screwing me because with a 6 am start (today 5 am!), we would need to be back for his big lunchtime nap by 11 am but I really struggle to get back even by 12:00 or 12:30 from any toddler activities or even just the park. If only I could get him to wake up later, but I've been trying that with son 1 for 2.5 years and never managed it. My goal is to avoid today's scenario where I am desperately trying to get him to have a short kip in the sling at 5 pm because he has barely slept all day and the toddler won't stop screaming and waking him up so I throw them both on the sofa, shout at them, and shut myself in the kitchen. :-$::o Per the above, can anyone with two "spirited" children tell me when it gets a bit easier?? I was banking on number 2 (4.5 months) being one of those babies that just slots in with whatever's happening with Son 1 (2.5 years), but he's not slotting at the moment even remotely.

I was going to suggest One Day too. Just read it on holiday myself and loved it.

I should be able to do Thursday PM. Hopefully see you there!

I had this in both pregnancies. In the second I saw a chiropractor around 32 weeks and it was sorted in one session. I can't believe I waited that long. The midwives seemed to think it was just normal pregnancy pain so I did nothing about it for much too long.

Exactly the same here with my just 4 month old! The number of times he has had a screaming meltdown on public transport in the last couple of weeks, I can't tell you. People look at me like I'm torturing him! Screams in the buggy, screams in the sling but wants to be carried around, not soothed by breast-feeding, nothing. I have the Wonder Weeks book and it helps me to think of it as a phase that will just pass. In my case it is complicated by the fact that I think he is reacting to foods that I'm eating (due to eczema, mucousy nappies, etc) so I always think the screaming might be diet related even though I've cut out pretty much every food group known to man! I am getting so fearful of the meltdowns that I don't want to leave the house but I have to or else my 2.5 year old starts to go mental and wreck the place. Here's hoping this phase comes and goes soon!

We're away next week too but keen to join the week after if we can.

I have a couple too!

Just an update, in case anyone encounters this same problem. We ditched the dummy at 15 weeks as it seemed to be causing more trouble than helping. It has gone surprisingly well! I remember the dummy weaning with my older son (at 6 months) involved alot of screaming and desperately comforting in other ways but this has been much easier. I just use the sling and buggy in the day and I've developed a patented shh/pat technique in the Amby hammock where I hit his bottom from underneath the mattress and shush very loudly (whatever works!). He is also trying much harder to suck his fingers while he is awake since the dummy has gone, which would be good for self soothing eventually (I'll deal with orthodontic bills later and enjoy the sweet sweet sleep until then!).

I think the key is the legs dangling over the insert and gently apart. My son hated having his legs squished in like they show in the video. I was surprised that it worked having his legs apart and around me but it did from a fairly early age. I did find that the Ergo didn't come up as high on his back as I would have liked but I wonder if you could remove the cushion part of insert so that she would be sitting a bit lower? At 3.5 months I am almost confident enough about my son's neck strength to put him in the Ergo without insert. It won't be long until you can use it the regular way! We also still use ours with our 16 kg toddler (back carry).

Ah this sounds so good on paper I think I need to try again. Has not been a success to date. He always either wakes up and seems angry about being woken or just chews on the bottle and takes less than an ounce. I haven't tried it BFing directly so maybe I'll try that next.

Yes, I have no issue with dummies in theory and would be very happy for him to keep it but not up for 15 replugs through the night! The first night has gone well but I think the daytime will be harder.

Thanks for the quick reply! I think we'll have to go down the same route. I am having some luck extending naps by popping him in the sling after 45 mins, if you wanted to try that. May create another problem but one thing at a time. Bracing myself for night 1 no dummy tonight.

Jenny, what did you end up doing about this? The exact same thing has started happening here at the exact same age! Unfortunately it is the latter half of the night that is the problem. Constant waking even every 15 minutes. Night 4 of virtually no sleep for me after 12 or 1 am and I'm exhausted. I thought he might be hungry but he doesn't seem that interested - few sucks then back to sleep for 20 mins or so and the the shifting grunting and little cries start to escalate! The same thing is now happening when he wakes from a nap at exactly 45 mins, when I used to be able to just pop the dummy in to get another 45 mins. If I remember, this happened with my older son but not until 5 or 6 months. We ditched his dummy then. I think the dummy might have to go as I can't survive on 2 hours sleep for much longer!

There is also one on Friday mornings at Rye Oak school and Saturday morning at Peckham Library I believe. It is one of my son's favourite activities.

Have you seen the site ohdeedoh? Amazing for kid's room ideas.

It's a hammock and dummy for us, I'm afraid. And lots of sling/buggy too. I tend to do the first nap at home and most of the rest out. We're riddled with props that we'll have to wean eventually but at least he goes down quickly!

We went to Charlton House in Somerset on a special package and thought it was very good value. The spa is amazing!! The food was decent and the building itself is lovely. We had planned to go as a couple but had to reschedule and take our son, and even with him we had a lovely time and they were so accommodating of him.

I've got both boys and have to be in Herne Hill for 11:30 on Tuesday but could meet briefly if it was before that and not too far away.

Personally, at this age I agree with the strategy of aiming for one good nap in the cot - whichever one is the easiest one to get her down for. Then the rest I would just do whatever works best for you - sling or buggy if you want to be out and about, etc. They nap so often in these early months that it will do your head in if you're sitting shushing in a dark room 5-6 times per day! Once they drop down to more like 2 naps per day, you could have a renewed go at implementing all of the good nap routine ideas. I think with my first son we started from about 4 months or so getting that first nap morning in the cot - did the whole routine, similar to bedtime routine. This worked well because I could shower and get organised at home during this time. Then the rest of the day I wanted to be out, so he would sleep in the sling or buggy. Around 10 months or so I needed to start cutting down that morning nap to get a longer nap after lunch, so switched to doing the morning nap in the buggy and longer nap in the cot. The buggy nap got shorter and shorter until we were left with just the nap after lunch sometime around 18 months. That is still pretty much his routine now at 2.5. There are also advantages to having a baby that will nap in a sling/buggy as otherwise you will end up tied to the house for ages because there won't be time to get out and home in between naps. I think good napping is a skill that is very gradually learned for most babies. I struggled with my son's naps until he was 11 months or so, when it suddenly clicked and he became an amazing napper.

I can do the wooden circle on Thursday at 3. Maybe we need a rainy day backup location?