grumpyoldman

ECJ adapts established tort law for internet cases Kevin Bays, media and IP partner, Davenport Lyons In cases involving member states of the EU, the basic principle is that proceedings should be brought in the courts of the state of the defendant?s domicile. However, according to Article 5(3) of the relevant regulation proceedings may also be brought, in matters relating to tort, in the courts of the state where the harmful event occurred. This includes both the place where the damage occurred and the event giving rise to it. In the case of a libellous newspaper article, the European Court of Justice (ECJ) held, in Shevill & Ors v Presse ?Alliance (1995), that the place of the event giving rise to the damage is where the publisher is ?established?. A claimant may bring an action in the courts of the state where the publisher is established for all the harm caused by the libel. Alternatively, a claimant may bring a separate action in every member state in which the defamatory words are distributed and in which he has a reputation - but only in respect of the injury suffered by him in that state - the courts of which deal with the merits of the case in accordance with national law. The principles of Shevill also apply to torts other than defamation, such as the infringement of privacy rights, and to other means of communication, including publication on the internet. A claimant may bring an action for an internet libel/breach of privacy in the member state where the publisher was domiciled or established in respect of all the damage caused by the publication, wherever it occurred within Europe. Alternatively, the claimant may bring separate proceedings in each member state in which he claims to have suffered an infringement of his rights and the publication has been ?distributed?. The ECJ, recognising the special characteristics of the internet, drew a distinction between the physical distribution of newspapers and online publication. As the latter is intended to ensure the ubiquity of the content throughout the world, the criterion for jurisdiction relating to distribution is of limited value. In view of the difficulties involved in applying the criterion of the occurrence of damage to online publications, the ECJ decided that the Shevill principle should be adapted in internet cases. It held that a person whose personality rights (including reputation and privacy) have been infringed on the internet may now bring one action in respect of all the damage caused by the publication in the courts of the place in which he has the ?centre of his interests?. A person having the centre of his interests in France may therefore bring an action in the French courts, applying French law in respect of an internet publication accessible there, and seek to recover damages for all the harm alleged to have been ?suffered in all member states. Alternatively, a claimant may choose to sue in any state from which the internet publication is accessible for the damage alleged to have been caused in that particular state. What is clear is that claimants now seem to have the benefit of a forum ?supermarket? as well as the local shops.

It seems to be getting worse

Since writing Controversial which has been moved to the Lounge. I have been reading a lot of the comments made, and although this is a public forum, there is a possibility that the comments on here could be construed as Libel. To save people looking it up please find the page from Wikipedia below: Defamation?also called calumny, vilification, traducement, slander (for transitory statements), and libel (for written, broadcast, or otherwise published words)?is the communication of a statement that makes a claim, expressly stated or implied to be factual, that may give an individual, business, product, group, government, or nation a negative image. This can be also any disparaging statement made by one person about another, which is communicated or published. It is usually a requirement that this claim be false and that the publication is communicated to someone other than the person defamed (the claimant).[1] In common law jurisdictions, slander refers to a malicious, false,[2][not specific enough to verify] and defamatory spoken statement or report, while libel refers to any other form of communication such as written words or images.[3] Most jurisdictions allow legal actions, civil and/or criminal, to deter various kinds of defamation and retaliate against groundless criticism. Related to defamation is public disclosure of private facts, which arises where one person reveals information that is not of public concern, and the release of which would offend a reasonable person. "Unlike [with] libel, truth is not a defense for invasion of privacy."[4][not verified in body] False light laws are "intended primarily to protect the plaintiff's mental or emotional well-being."[5] If a publication of information is false, then a tort of defamation might have occurred. If that communication is not technically false but is still misleading, then a tort of false light might have occurred.[5] In most civil law jurisdictions, defamation is dealt with as a crime rather than a tort.[6] A person who harms another's reputation may be referred to as a famacide, defamer, or slanderer. The Latin phrase famosus libellus means a libelous writing.

see my post Controversial and agree with your thoughts

I await to see what the antagonists say overnight

I do not know James Barber, and have not voted for him, but would like to say in his defence that if I was him I would withdraw from all these threads. He decided to post and tries to help the majority of people on here, but it has now got to the stage where people are being abusive, which if this was to do with children could be classified as bullying. Yes we can all moan about things, but when does one stop? We do not live in a perfect world, if you do not like things that is fine, we live in a free society where we can complain, eventually if you do not like where you live, you can always move somewhere else where you may live your utopian lives. Sorry but it has got to the point that this forum is getting abusive to those that post here. Say what you want about me, I am thicked skinned and do not know any of you personally.

Am somewhat confused by the different reactions here, those wanting a big store but not on Lordship lane as they believe that it would spoil the small shops who have located there. Then suggesting that Peckham could do with the big shops, what about all the small shops there should those go out of business for the sake of the bigger shops. One has to be realistic about this, the reason for the decline in the high street as we know it was out of town retail parks, where you could drive and get everything one wanted in one go. Do people remember when would could do their shopping in the local grocery store and they would deliver it to your house. Yes you paid slightly more but this was delivered which meant you did not need to drive to get the items. Butchers and backers did the same and also there were milk men who delivered. In the modern age where people buy goods on line and have them delivered, we are again assisting the decline of shops as soon everything will be done on line. Where will we go to touch and see items before we buy, yes that?s right big warehouses in industrial parks who will then deliver? I remember Marks and Spencer in Peckham and one has to remember it is not just a food shop, but sells clothing at the same time, if one considers this carefully it could well work with the other shops around it, but in the meantime it is not going to happen. If there were more general shops in Lordship lane like grocers and general convenience store would people use it rather than going to the Co-ops, Sainsbury?s etc.? The decision is yours.

Ok if the insurance pays that will be ?500,000 if it was insured for replacement value. now go out and buy a new sculpture. Go to insurers and ask to have it covered. Problem. With increases of these types of theft and no security around it, it is not in an art gallery or anything< the possibility of it being stolen again is increased and therefore on that basis, the likelyhood must fall to being stolen in the next 10 years say. Therefore the cost to insure it would increase to 1in 10 which is a 10% rate, add on profit margin and say 35% cost to the insuranmce company ( they have to pay staff, bills and office space) then the rate increases from 10% to closer to 15% annual.In addition you then have to add IPT. Therefore the cost to insure the new statue would be ?500,000 *15% annually which would be ?75,000. This tyhen becomes prohibative to replace the statue.

My butler is complaining about the standard of people he meets in teh Local shops, he has asked weather Fortnums would like to open in East Dulwich. If not he wishes to tender his resignation. What do I do next?

I like my blue bin, but someone has nicked mine. Its been reported and hopefully I will get a new one soon.

Can we put in road closures on Underhill Road, Forest hill Road and Barry road as well please, becayuse by closing off all the other roiads the traffic has to go somewhere.

Sorry to jump onto the band waggon, but can we not also put road blocks into Underhill Road, Dunstans Road etc which would eleviate the issues with Barry Road and the accidents there. We could then close off Forest Hill Road and Lordship lane and divert everyone around the South Circular. That would mean we could predestian all these roads and there would be no need for cars. This would reduce the risk to all the children in the neighbourhood , leave large spaces for dog poo and everyone would live in a wonderful world. Hang on No police cars would get to houses to catch the muggers, no fire brigade or ambulances, waitrose and marks and spencer once built in Lordship lane would not be able to deliver goods. None of the bars or restaurants would get delivery of drinks or food. On good thing there would be no estate agents to push things through the letter boxes , as they would not be able to drive. bring back horses and carriges. No need for traffic lights and no issue with the road surfuce.

So why did Labour not look at electoral reform in teh previous 12 years of government, when they had a major majority. Oh yes it would not have worked for them at the time. It is easy to knock everyones arguments but at least the current coalition government have the balls to ask what the country would like. each to their own and the whole point of a secret ballot is its secret.

What I find suprising is that they are replacing speed humps in the area but not doing anything about the potholes

I posted here back in February, and I thought that I would check in to see if there had been any change in the views on the forums. It appears not!!!! However I do find the views on the West Dulwich Forum amussing- which are as follows:- Quote" Hi everyone in West Dulwich. I am new to this forum. I have been posting on EDF as a new member but find them v. strange. Don't get me wrong - I am a working class lass, actually working in a domestic environment in west dulwich for a very nice family. In my previous working life I was a legal secretary but actually became so stressed with the job I suffered a near heart-attack. Admittedly this was 30 or so years ago. I then decided to enter domestic work (which has been in our family for years) and find I enjoy this work so much. I love people and looking after people. However, I do love to keep up to date pseudo-intellectually,and I also love to mix well with people. I find the ED lot very brash, vulgar and up their own A***ses, which I find upper classes and lower classes at least have in common (we cannot abide the middle man). Well either you will accept my postings or not - I hope I can keep you all informed of the latest in ED. Feel free to read my posts on the ED forum. Much love. Options: Reply To This Message?Quote This Message Re: boring east dulwich Posted by: JOMCI 04 January, 2008 21:13 Couldnt agree more, east dulwich is the new clapham, avoid like the plague.. Options: Reply To This Message?Quote This Message Re: boring east dulwich Posted by: Flannery 15 January, 2008 10:41 There is a danger ED will become like Clapham and they seem just as concerened about that fact over on the EDF "to mix well with people. I find the ED lot very brash, vulgar and up their own A***ses, which I find upper classes and lower classes at least have in common (we cannot abide the middle man)" I find this a bit strange though. Not sure what class has to do with it but from what I know, many many of the regulars on there are working class. I don't see any toffs on there. But the variety of people is what strikes me.... you can't honestly think many of the regulars on there are that similar you have a chav with a law degree, several Irish people, several born and bred locals, several well read people, several who never read... actually there seems to be an argument on there most days so they definitely aren't all the same And as for mixing with people, did you ever go to one of their drinks Lou? Options: Reply To This Message?Quote This Message Re: boring east dulwich Posted by: El Pibe 15 January, 2008 13:37 Totally agree. I can't stand East Dulwich types with all those 3 wheeled-buggies and snotty people harping on about oysters all the time. Give me the Tulse Hill Tavern and some pork scratchings any day of the week. Options: Reply To This Message?Quote This Message Re: boring east dulwich Posted by: El Pibe 28 January, 2008 08:59 "Some IP Address investigation is appropriate." *looks around furtively, shifts uncomfortably* Options: Reply To This Message?Quote This Message Re: boring east dulwich Posted by: Paleproctologist 20 March, 2008 11:28 Tsk - you boys is bad innit. At least ED has Sainsburys where you can but the best meat around. Options: Reply To This Message?Quote This Message Re: boring east dulwich Posted by: Mamasita 21 March, 2008 11:35 Well it appears to me that there is the possiblity that Flannery and Paleproctologist might be members of the aforementioned ED forum, keeping an eye on what is being said here, (someone mentioned in a thread on there about what the members on here are saying about them), please don't make them feel more important than they already do! ha! Options: Reply To This Message?Quote This Message Re: boring east dulwich Posted by: Mamasita 21 March, 2008 11:42 Oh hi by the way, I have been an avid reader (although not poster) of both forums (well this one since it started up) and for quite a while on the ED forum, gives me something to do while I'm busily pretending to work all day! I do love the diversity of the posts sometimes and have often laughed out loud (whilst pretending to work) at some of what goes on! I then have to pretend I was merely having a coughing fit at my desk, and now have it down to a tee! Nice to meet you all. Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 21/03/2008 11:43 by Mamasita. Options: Reply To This Message?Quote This Message Re: boring east dulwich Posted by: Paleproctologist 26 March, 2008 12:28 We is busted Man .... *Scampers back to the East Dulwich Badlands* Options: Reply To This Message?Quote This Message Re: boring east dulwich Posted by: Kells 01 February, 2009 18:04 I'm on both. Same name as well....I didn't realise I had to resort to subterfuge! I might set up a South Dulwich forum. Options: Reply To This Message?Quote This Message Re: boring east dulwich Posted by: martell1 07 February, 2009 18:28 your post has caused quite a stir on EDF! Options: Reply To This Message?Quote This Message Re: boring east dulwich Posted by: downsouth 09 February, 2009 10:10 I do find the whole "them" and "us" thing quite funny as the only posters who have put up derogatory things are normally ex-EDF members. By and large those comments are ignored by most people who do post here. But with the amount of traffic generated over there lots of opinions are aired very quickly whereas that's just not the case on the WDF. I think the lack of replies to such posts is indicative of the fact that most people here simply don't care about non-existenet rivalries which to be fair the EDF guys enjoy as it forms part of their banter. Options: Reply To This Message?Quote This Message Re: boring east dulwich Posted by: KoolBananas 27 February, 2009 07:46 Please see my comments on the other thread [www.westdulwichforum.co.uk] and stop being so childish! Options: Reply To This Message?Quote This Message Re: boring east dulwich Posted by: AlleynAlleyn 09 March, 2009 20:31 How about we all join together and slag off people who live in Dulwich Village!!!??? Come on . . . . . Options: Reply To This Message?Quote This Message Re: boring east dulwich Posted by: AlleynAlleyn 09 March, 2009 20:56 I suggest we settle all this East vs West stuff the good old-fashioned way. An organised punch up. Think of the fight scene from Gangs of New York. Winners get exclusive access to Dulwich Village. And the losers have to shut their forum down - forever. If East loses, they get renamed South Peckham and wear shell suits until the end of time. Ditto if West loses, renamed as East West Norwood, and a compulsory diet of burger and chips for ever. Very important to agree in advance the acceptable weapons range. I suggest chariot units use those ginormous baby buggies - the sort that seem not to fold down anymore when taken into crowded cafes. Currently being modified to replace Humvees in Iraq. One person in each, armed with oven-hardened ciabattas, to be pushed by no more than two pushers. (Or one Polish nanny.) Items for throwing to involve any of the many forms of local listing / chat / glossy ads magazines - SE21 Magazine (and all the other postcodes), Dulwich Life, Female Beauty Products Illustrated, Living South etc., etc. Good to find something useful to do with them all at last. But suggest all articles by Dulwich Mum be removed first - so toxic they will infringe International Law about chemical weapons, war crimes etc. Equivalent to medieval boiling oil for chucking in eyes to be skinny decaf soya lattes. Tea spoons to be removed first. If hostilities run over into the following Monday, all Nanny combatants to have the day off, of course. Finally, WW1-style Western Front truces to be arranged every 30 minutes for parties to get together and discuss house prices, best nurseries, and recommend estate agents. Additional suggestions welcome. Finally, time and place - to allow for planning and training, I suggest April 1st at 12.00 outside the Dog and Hat. See you all there . . . Meanwhile, drinks party for all those Dulwich residents who do not care about East / West: inside the Dog and Hat at the same time. Seats by the front windows. Bring camcorders for posterity and enjoy the free show. Options: Reply To This Message?Quote This Message Re: boring east dulwich Posted by: KoolBananas 21 March, 2009 10:20 Has this not been suggested before?

I have been reading this site for a number of years and finally have decided to subscribe. I have lived in the area for in excess of 20 years and have seen, thanks to the middle and upper class that have moved into the area, the area going down hill. When I moved to the area we lived in a multi racial area where people were willing to talk to each other regardless of class or colour. We could walk down Lordship lane and talk to people and purchase goods of a vast variety of nature. We could happily shop in Peckham when there was a Sainsbury?s (were where the cinema is now) The pubs were old fashioned but the clientele were diamond geezers of all classes and colour. What do we have now:- People complaining about almost anything form the Butchers (if you talk to them as I did when they open they are very friendly) to predestination of our streets (where do you want the cars to go?) to rats in Sainsbury?s ( I remember when it was still the Sports fields for Kings) and it was called Dog Kennel Hill for a reason, to complaints about violence (if you don?t like it leave), It appears that on the whole this website is for people to vent their frustrations because they have no life, or do not want to get on with other people. Sorry I know that it is my choice to read website but over the last few weeks you are so up your own that this has got to me. Get a life and live it, the world will be a better place if people stop moaning. Good bye.