ThorNogson

The difference , of 1-3 decibels peak, is not perceptible on the ground. There are many studies to confirm this. Airports are misleading people to believe new generation aircraft will make a perceptible difference to the overflown. In SE London in level flight at under 2000 ft London City's own measurements show they will not. "Perception Sound studies tell us time and again that a 3dBA increase in sound level is barely noticeable to the human ear. In fact, you have to raise a sound level by 5dBA before most listeners report a noticeable or significant change. Further, it takes a 10dBA increase before the average listener hears ?double the sound.? That?s a far cry from 3dB. "

Claims that the 'new generation' aircraft will be quieter for Londoners have been undermined by a London City Airport noise monitor at Lambeth which showed that the only new generation (so called quieter) plane flying at present the Airbus A220-100 shows a maximum of 3 dB lower in level flight than its predecessors at 2000ft. This is a scarcely perceptible noise difference on the ground. Yet the Airport is already set to double flights over SE London from 2017 levels, and now wants to apply for even more. For us, double the flights = near double the noise, even with new generation aircraft. Full information here. http://www.hacaneast.org.uk/news The 5.5 degree steep arrivals approach only applies from a short distance from the runway. London City flies planes for 20 miles in level flight under 2000ft over densely populated SE London before eventually beginning a descent. It fails to use a Continuous Descent Approach which would mean planes flying much higher for longer, and quieter too.

HACAN East will be holding a public meeting, jointly with the No3rdRunway Campaign and Plane Hell Action, covering London City and Heathrow expansion on 4th September, 7-9pm, St Mark?s Church Kennington, 337 Kennington Park Rd, SE11 4PW

to respond to the London City Airport flight path consultation , which ends tomorrow, you don't need to get all technical. Here's a clear, heartfelt letter from a local resident which makes clear points. Respond to the consultation at [[email protected]](mailto:[email protected]) *'Your Response Form is too ambiguous to complete correctly.* *First of all, we do not consider that sufficient publicity has been given to this matter. Advertisements in a few freebie newspapers which are not generally available across the area has NOT given the public affected sufficient notice. It also appears to us that with the ongoing Heathrow Consultations, that City Airport are endeavouring to get their Consultations through under the radar.* *London City Airport is situated in a densely populated residential area and consequently their planes flyover a large residential area including South East London at altitudes of 2000 feet or less when they are some 20 miles from touch down. The noise from these planes is such as to interrupt conversation, radio and television etc particularly in hot weather when windows etc are open. * *We do not agree that no new areas should be overflown, the noise and pollution generated by these planes must be shared out more fairly and not targeted on the same unfortunate residents. It is imperative, that as a matter of urgency that residents are NOT overflown by planes from more than one airport. This area of SE London is overflown by both City and Heathrow planes.* *City Airport was built on the understanding that it would be used by turbo prop aircraft and the BAE 146, not the jets now thundering over SE London. In addition, it would be an airport used for business people with the result that there would not be that many flights. Nowadays, planes are thundering over every few minutes. * *It is amazing how we have to respond to numerous Consultations now, but Concentrated Flight Paths were imposed upon us without any prior notice or Consultation.* *We are also concerned about safety and pollution with the number of aircraft which fly almost non stop over this area.* *Resident?s health should come before profit of airports, particularly when they are not even UK owned.*"

Lewisham comes out firmly against the expansion https://twitter.com/SophieMcGeevor/status/1164923753417052169?s=20

very pleased to see this intervention by Lewisham Council - writing to the CEO of London City Airport https://twitter.com/SophieMcGeevor/status/1164923753417052169?s=20

https://www.newham.gov.uk/Pages/News/Mayor-of-Newham-calls-for-London-City-Airport-consultation-to-be-halted-in-open-letter-to-airport-chief-executive.aspx It will be interesting to see if London City Airport expansive plans survive the direct criticism of its own planning authority, Newham.

Heathrow have a public consultation open at the moment. Many local residents complain of being woken from 4.30 am during the summer when we have windows open. A third runway will mean more of their flight arrivals over London. Making a response is easy, and even easier if you use the guide published by Climate Action Lewisham on their Facebook pages at https://www.facebook.com/groups/274035326574499/?multi_permalinks=401961243781906%2C401743323803698%2C400785293899501%2C400320527279311%2C401940890450608&notif_id=1565426756985729&notif_t=group_activity Vicky Foxcroft MP (Lewisham and Deptford) is holding a public meeting with Heathrow on 21st August about their expansion plans. All are welcome - details here. https://www.vickyfoxcroft.org.uk/in-lewisham-deptford/2019/08/01/heathrow-airport-expansion-consultation-meeting/

As the word spreads about what London City wants to do- their draft Masterplan aims for a huge increase in their low altitude concentrated flights over Forest Hill, Dulwich/Herne Hill, the fight back is being led by a new campaign from HACAN East which needs support from the overflown right now. ?Back the Ban?, supports the retention of the existing 24 hour ban on flights between Saturday and Sunday lunchtimes. London City say they now want to fly in this period. What can you do? 1. Fill out a Back the Ban postcard and post it to London City at their Freepost address. Here it is. https://hacan.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2019/07/HACANeast-Cut-n-Post-BTB-A4-Print-Colour-2-3.pdf 2.Sign the Change petition to Newham Council, which is the body with approval over the airport?s planning applications and activities. Here it is. http://chng.it/X6gss942 http://www.hacaneast.org.uk/news

Fine weather again, don?t forget to keep logging noise complaints with London City Airport. Here?s mine from today. 'Once again I find it necessary to complain about the low altitude aircraft flying today over Forest Hill to LCY. They fly under 2000 feet, which is too low, create persistent repeated noise at around 60 db and interrupt greatly the enjoyment of the outdoors. Inevitably this happens during the fine weather that accompanies east winds in this area. I am also dismayed to see that LCY has applied to the CAA to put back by nearly a year the CP1616 process. This appears to demonstrate the lack of any urgency or concern by the airport for overflown residents, despite three years of record complaints and detailed representations to the airport by residents including from the Forest Hill Society following the introduction of concentrated low altitude flight paths over SE London in 2016.' London City are going through an Airspace Change process, a review of the flight paths they use. They have applied to the CAA put back the process ? in order to deconflict the engagement process with previously planned airport activity?. I would think this means their expected expansion plans in the forthcoming Masterplan, which they are prioritising ahead of addressing noise relief and flight paths. Meanwhile here is a way we can all help to quantity the aircraft noise in our or any area, using a new app developed in Holland. Download Explane on to your smartphone, then simply point the phone mic at a noisy aircraft. It logs the noisiest 10 seconds, identifies the plane and you can then submit the data to their central database. The crowdsourced data is then analysed, shared and can be used to provide evidence of the need for change. This is so new that no one is using it for London City planes yet. I started today. Could a few of us start to build an evidence base that we can use to create more pressure for change? Anyone else care to try it and report back? https://explane.org/

It has been better this last week without Heathrow over us, but SE London gets no respite- if we don't get Heathrow arrivals we get London City, and in light easterly winds it is both. April 9th to 18th, saw 10 consecutive days of every single London City aircraft flying under 2000 feet over Forest Hill/Dulwich/Herne Hill. In Nov 2018, Liam McKay, a director of this airport said . 'The key metric for us is noise complaints as a reflection of distress levels?. So complain if you are bothered by this at all otherwise they think this is ok. Little airport, big noise. Here is where you do it. https://www.londoncityairport.com/corporate/Environment/Environmental-Complaints-Enquiries

just a reminder that in the recent fine weather all London City Airport arrivals are overflying us once again. Planes at 2000ft every 4 minutes at some times of day. Research shows that different people are disturbed by different noise levels. If you are at all concerned, read on. London City are on record as saying their key reported measure on the issue is numbers of complaints so it is up to us to fill their inbox. You do this by filling in their form at https://www.londoncityairport.com/corporate/Environment/Environmental-Complaints-Enquiries or by emailing [email protected] Meanwhile Forest Hill Society with support from Dulwich Society will be meeting London City executives in early March to raise once again what we want to change - a redesign of flightpaths over us with proper consultation, an end to the concentrated flight path, flying higher for longer, periods of relief from aircraft noise and proper joint planning with Heathrow to minimise or end double overflight.

twitter.com Vicky Foxcroft MP (vickyfoxcroft) On Thursday the 28th of February at 6:30pm I will be chairing a Q&A session with @HeathrowAirport at the Honor Oak Community Centre. This will be a chance to question Heathrow representatives about their future plans for the airport. Full details; vickyfoxcroft.org.uk/in-lewisham-de?

great - the more who respond the better. I think Londoners are gradually waking up to what's happening with Heathrow expansion. ?.and yes, the Northlands if you include generations of family from Yorkshire... ThorNogson was an intrepid adventurer, great friend and a soldier but quite nervous of actually fighting anyone.

Still unsure about whether to respond to Heathrow and make sure our area?s views are heard? It?s now easy to make sense of what to say with the help of the Forest Hill Society?s new guide to the consultation for South East Londoners. For each Heathrow question, there are suggestions about what the key issues are for people in our area and what we might say about them. https://1drv.ms/p/s!AuV6NOp8I8tAkX-wJntuswM5961T The deadline for responding to Heathrow?s proposed redesign of flight paths over London is 4th March.