woodleigh

Andricia - I have some sympathy for your comment. It has been great to see so many new businesses opening and thriving over the last few years. When I moved here 8 years ago, I was attracted by the quality of the housing stock, the green spaces, and initial signs of a great foodie scene (ED Deli, William Rose, Moxons, Franklins, SMBS). Since then, the initial trail blazers have been joined so many great additions to Lordship Lane, New Cross Road, and more recently Bellenden. It is a shame that certain contributors to the Forum are negative about the prospect of the opening of a new shop or restaurant that doesn?t fit with their taste ? and then pull rank on others based on a notion that entitlement to an opinion should be based on the number of years spent living in the area. The basic laws of economics tell us that supply responds to demand. The reason that we have (for example) shops selling (say) organic produce and (dare I say it) other ?stuff for the middle classes? is because that is what a large (and increasing) part of the local population wants ? me included. If this is how we want to spend some of our spare cash, then local retail will respond accordingly. I would not dream of judging someone for wanting (or needing) to shop at Iceland, or buying their bread and cakes from Hirst Bakery, or having lunch at the Dulwich Cafe. So I don?t expect someone else to judge me for preferring to spend my money on sourdough from Franklins, French patisserie from Jade, an expensive bottle of wine from Chez Bruno, or a meal at one of the pricier local restaurants. A walk up Lordship Lane on a Saturday suggests that I am not alone. Of course, there are others who are not in the same position. But there is no tirade of abuse on this Forum against the shops that cater for the less wealthy part of the local population. I don?t see how sarcastic comments about new businesses before they have even appeared is of any interest other than occasional mild entertainment in the slanging match that usually ensues. I wonder if those who do not like what East Dulwich has become might consider cashing in on the huge increase in the value of their homes that they will have enjoyed thanks to the influx of the new middle-class sourdough eaters, and find somewhere less posh to live!

James Thanks very much for your quick reply and I appreciate that you were not in a position to decide who should be consulted - thanks for your efforts. As you suggest, in addition to the streets neighbouring the CPZ in the East Dulwich postcode there is potentially a significant impact on the streets in South Camberwell just to the north of Grove Vale where both East Dulwich and Denmark Hill stations are within short walking distance. I am quite shocked that residents of these streets have not been consulted and it will not do the Council any favours if they find out after the event.

Dear James Barber There have been many posts on here questioning why the Council has failed to consult residents of the area immediately surrounding the CPZ for their views on the proposals. Despite various posts on here from you, I cannot see any reposonse from you to this question (I will gladly be proven wrong - I have not been through all 20 pages). Please could you reply to this question? I live just outside the CPZ and given that I will be severly adversely affected by the CPZ, I am riled by the fact that I haven't even been notified of the plans. Parking is usually just about ok where I live, despite a number of commuters already parking on my street. When the plans are introduced (I have no doubt that they will be given that the consultation appears to have been carefully engineered to achieve that result), it will become impossible to park in my street - until, of course, having backed me into a corner, the Council invites me to buy into the scheme. The point about moving rather than solving a problem has already been well made. I would like you to explain, please, why the consultation has been limited to those who stand to gain from these plans.

A categoric "no" from me for the following reasons. - Detrimental impact on small independednts: this has been covered extensively in previous threads. The choice of good quality independent shops, particularly food shops, is what gives ED its character and sets it apart from anywhere else I can think of in London. Almost without exception, it is what friends of ours comment on when they come to visit. It is also not true (in all but a few cases) that the local independents are overpriced - it is simply that most of them are selling premium products. A Waitrose or M&S would slowly but surely kill off a lot of these shops. Waitrose in particular, which sets itself apart from other supermarkets by the quality of its fresh meat and fish, would be in direct competition with the likes of Moxons and William Rose. Laziness will take hold, and people will pick up their veg, meat and fish at the supermarket instead of local shops. I absolutely do not buy the argument that a Waitrose would bring more footfall to LL. The average Waitrose shopper gets out of their car, shops for the week, gets back in the car and drives home. They are not going to do their Waitrose shopping and then walk round the corner to Pretty Traditional to pick up a broccoli. - I can see the case for a Waitrose or M&S in an area where it fills a gap - i.e. where there is something missing. In Earlsfield, for example, residents were ecstatic about the prospect of an M&S Local because there's didly-squat on the high street except estate agents (although they got a Sainsbury's local in the end!). Similarly, in the average provincial town, there is usually no alternative to supermarket shopping. But we are in a completely different position here - there is nothing that a Waitrose or M&S can offer that we can't already get on LL, or (for non-fresh items and household goods) Sainsbury's on DKH. - The potential catchment area of a Waitrose or M&S on LL worries me. Neither of these stores has a branch anywhere close to ED, and a new store on LL could potentially draw a huge number of shoppers in from surrounding postcodes. The problem is, there is no infrastructure to cope with this influx. Parking would become unbearable (even if the store had a carpark, it would fill quickly during peak times, and spill out onto surrounding streets). - The statement in the initial post that a Waitrose or M&S would "help the area" puzzles me. It suggests that the area needs help. Help in what way exactly? I can only assume that what was meant here is that a Waitrose or similar would help the area in its continued gentrification and in establishing East Dulwich as a desirable postcode. I certainly have nothing agaist that (and everything to gain so far as house prices are concerned!) but to be honest ED is basically "there" already - only, unlike many other "aspiring" neighbourhoods, it has so far done so while maintaining individuality and character. To lose this would be a great shame, and it won't just be those who currently shop in the local independent shops who will notice the difference.

Just to add my support, I think the increase from 20 to 30 stalls is great news. I would also love to see a farmers market on Sundays - Lordship Lane on a Sunday lacks a bit of life and I'm sure this would help as it's bound to be a hit. I do also sympathise with the concerns that some residents of North Cross Road have raised, and admit that these dont impact on me as I live a 10 minute walk away. However, the suggestion above that the Sunday market should start later in the morning is a good one - not many shoppers will be up and about before 10am on a Sunday morning anyway.

James First of all it's good to see a local councillor taking part in this discussion, so thanks. However, in reply to your question "have I missed something", I do think that the suggestion of a Herne-Hill type system has one major drawback, which so far as I can see has not been picked up on yet. This goes back to your earlier comment that "the Herne Hill type scheme operating for 1 or 2 hours a day for streets within 5 mins walk of East Dulwich railway station would surely help residents on those streets". I have no doubt that it will help residents on those streets, but what about residents of streets just outside the 5-minute restricted zone? I live just outside what is likely to be the restricted zone, but still within feasible walking distance of the station. Parking in my street is currently just about ok (although it has definitely got busier in the last 4 years since I have lived here). Although I sympathise with those who live closer to the station, putting in a restricted zone will simply move the problem a few streets away - it is bonkers to think that commuters will stop driving to the station, they will simply be forced to park slightly further away then they currently do. I realise I have a vested interest here (as no doubt many others do, whether they agree with parking restriction or not). However, this solution would simply a case of moving the problem from one group of residents to another - not getting rid of the problem. For that reason, I dont see that it has any merit to it. Another point, and in my view an important one, echoes the comments made by others above, which is that the lack of parking restrictions in East Dulwich is something that considerably adds to the pleasantness of the area as a place to live. I think we should be careful what we start because the introduction of even mild parking restrictions will almost certainly be the start of a slippery slope to the kind of parking hell that plagues places like Brixton, Clapham and Fulham (speaking from personal experience) where neither residents nor visitors gain anything from parking restrictions except costly tickets and constant arguments with parking attendants.