Otto2

Hello - Here's a Guardian article... https://www.theguardian.com/news/2021/mar/25/traffic-wars-who-will-win-the-battle-for-city-streets

Wonderful - thanks!

Re: Legal Alien: "On a more practical note, I've always thought that a big part of the school run traffic problem is caused by those with children at each of DC/DPL on the one hand, and JAGS/Alleyns on the other, who need to do a double drop and travel through the Village (or now some alternative route) for that purpose. If the schools could arrange for a single drop off point at each end and an active travel option or minibus between one end and the other it might help? Pre closures I always thought that a drop off point in Dulwich Park and then some "walking bus" arrangements from there would be the go." I agree with Legal Alien. A huge amount of congestion is school rush hour - specifically from the private schools where children often come from further afield and are driven in. Charter kids are selected by distance to the door so they are less the issue. At one point, about ten years ago, a Mum from DPL was trying to start just what you mention Legal Alien - a central drop hub -- it was congested back then. She proposed Dulwich Park and having some bicycles suitable for child transport as well as bicycles children could ride themselves and also, walking but walking is tricky timing-wise when you have to be at two schools at the same time to pick up children. I joined discussion re: this but ultimately, it fell apart as the bike part seemed a hard thing to arrange (by overstretched working mothers) with so many variables (Dulwich Park, Council, Insurance, Storage, Bike Companies, etc). Perhaps councillors and the private schools would like to engage to get this going or brainstorm about other possible solutions.

Adding up car insurance, tax, plus MOT per year will take you well over ?1000 in most cases. If you rent a car 3 times a year for a week's length each time, it will come in at about ?600 or lower (?200 per week though sometimes lower). That leaves about ?400 to spend on either hiring a cargo cycle company like the Pedalme guys to do runs to the dump, move things etc, or, a local taxi. I would think in most cases you'd save money. We did the numbers many years ago and it worked out but maybe you take more holidays in the UK than that. We need one for a week a year but not always, and sometimes a weekend. We now use our own cargo bike for moving bulky stuff but I appreciate that is not for everyone. Apologies if my estimates are off - we did the maths years ago...

We almost signed up but realised it was more expensive and less convenient for us. For someone that would use it more, it is probably good though! Sixt car rental in Battersea will do delivery and pickup of vehicles to your door (though we cycle over).

We researched this ages ago with Zipcar as there is a space for one near us and found it was cheaper to take taxis or rent occasionally when needed but maybe that has changed and it will also depend on how much usage of a car you need - for us, as we very rarely need one, it was not worth joining a car club. Also, you know you can always get a taxi or rental vs wondering if the zip car there and available...

"@Otto: why do you think it is ok to treat me and thousands of others like second class citizens and treat us with extra pollution and noise?? What would you do if your home/road was affected - would you sit there quietly, pondering philosophically on the fact that it may or may not get better in few years time? " I do not live in an LTN. I live super nearby an A road that had an increase in traffic in the very beginning (and mine did as well - at least 10x), and, being severely asthmatic, I was affected. Since then, it has quieted down tremendously. I know when schools go back and more people start to go to work it will pick up but I've lived here a long time and the road I am adjacent to has always had periods of high traffic - concentrated around school run times.

I think you could just take snapshots of publicly avail data daily at regular various times (google traffic perhaps)if you wanted to? But, how about giving it more time? Change happens slowly and things are abnormal at the moment in terms of patterns.

I never had many (save the odd purchase) deliveries previous to lockdown but as I'm on the shield list and haven't been able to shop for a year, I have had to have deliveries. That will end soon though and I can't wait! We do have a cargo bike that can also be a tandem so that is helpful. I'm of the opinion it should be given more time and tweak as necessary. There will be tweaks needed and like someone said previously, this is a decent way to figure out what will work without too much expense.

"to make the point that even the most ardent supporter of model shift and LTNs still has reason to own a car and many people who own a car do so because they have to - some just have many more reasons to use it than others." We gave up our car (actually, carS!) when our children were quite young - as a trial at first. It seemed really daunting. I had lived a car-free life previously in a city where car ownership was fairly impossible. Back then, I did not have the additional transport burden of two tiny children. But, it was much easier than I thought it would be. I have seen a massive increase in people walking and cycling. Yes, we are in a lockdown, but, many people have made a shift I bet they will stick with. Would this have happened without LTN's? Probably not - it is easy to just jump in a car and people do not do change so eagerly when it is convenient for them not to. We'll need more of lots of things infrastructure-wise to reduce car dependency but beginning to shift behaviour seems like the hard part to me.

Thanks Rockets - Some good points. Quick thoughts -- I like 3) in particular especially as it seems odd that cars can park in the spaces on my street but there is no provision for people who cycle. As for 4) - I agree, but, we still need to cut the number of cars overall as there simply is not room given population growth, and, pollution/particles from tyres are actually a huge problem when it comes to our health. 6) - it is a shame that it is a borough by borough approach and some joined up planning would be welcome. 7)Let's work on that division here! 8) I see many reports and studies are coming out -- change is slow, monitoring is ongoing, and we should read and learn - I agree. 2) -- "closing roads to through traffic as that does not fix anything - it makes matters worse" -- With my own eyes, have seen an increase in many a small person of late use these areas to travel, to learn how to ride a bike, to alter their travel routes. I've also seen more children playing outside. I've seen leisurely strolls. I have seen in increase of active travel across generations and abilities.

Rockets - It would be good to hear what your vision is for tackling the very real problem we will face in having too many cars on the road in London based on population growth estimates and subsequent damage to the environment and people. How would you encourage the people that can change to change? There's an abundance of academic study given to this topic -- perhaps there are papers and data you can cite to back up your vision?

Thank you SE22_2020er - you are not alone with that view.

I'm disheartened with the personal attacks - on anyone who has extensive knowledge of modal shift initiatives that are relevant to the discussion -- attempts to repaint these individuals as dishonest is very witch hunt-ish. Thanks for the clarification Peter. "if any local areas wants to boost cycling and walking numbers then it's not just a matter of building separated bike lanes on main roads, but also making smaller residental streets more human-friendly. Part of this is (properly enforced) lower speeds, but part of it is measures to disincentivise some short, one-person car journeys (about a third of London car trips are less than 2km), not least so the roads are more free for those who really need to drive. And part of this tends to involve modal filtering. Again, this isn't some weird personal belief, it's happened in the UK for about 50 years, and is ubiquitous in lots of other countries. So yes, this means that while I think LTNs (or whatever you call them) will inevitably be part of the mix of a modern city, they're not the only element, and nor is every LTN, as designed and installed, immediately perfect."

This research (and ongoing) is well-intentioned - a focused study on equity in active travel infrastructure. It also has been undertaken by academics who are highly regarded in their fields. It contains recommendations to ensure equity. Insinuating these academics are corrupt is just awful.

Please feel free to try to tear down the notable credentials of the other four women. I'm waiting...

Cracking on, the research paper by Rachel Aldred, Ersilia Verlingheri, Megan Sharkey, Irena Itova, and Anna Goodman notes that the LTN roll-out process is ongoing and that further analysis will be applied as more LTN's roll out - that it is a changing picture - a snapshot if you will of just the first phase. And, they have framed that snapshot with recommendations for ensuring equity in active travel infrastructure going forward.

The reason is in the study (it is worth a read in full): "Our analysis addressed the following research questions: 1.With respect to key dimensions of equity (e.g. ethnicity, deprivation), how equitably are LTNs distributed across London? 2.Are there salient differences between LTNs and immediately adjacent areas? 3.Are any relationships (or lack thereof) observed for London as a whole also presentwithin individual districts? We include the second research question because boundary roads and/or adjacent areas might experience at least short-term traffic displacement after introducing a new LTN. In addition, while LTNs can benefit people living in adjacent areas through increased opportunities to make local trips by foot or by bicycle, the magnitude of this benefit is expected to be even greater for residents living inside an LTN, who also enjoy the benefits of reduced motor traffic in the street that they live on. As such, differences in demographic characteristics between LTN areas and adjacent areas might indicate an equity issue, even without any sustained disbenefit to adjacent areas."

The study itself addresses the question of equity and access to LTN's. It makes no claim re traffic reduction. Worth reading the study - it is interesting!

Actually, no. From the study: (worth a read - for example, there are recommendations for Southwark specifically in terms of making things more equitable for access to LTN's)- but - to the point above -- "We defined the boundaries of LTNs specifically for the purpose of this paper and hence not necessarily in line with areas shown in intervention maps drawn by districts. For this analysis, a ?new LTN? is that area in which we would expect the new modal filters installed between March and September2020to have reduced through motor traffic. Some districts included a wider area within their map, for instance including a larger new zone with reduced speed limits, or an adjacent area already impermeable to through motor traffic. We removed ?boundary roads? continuing to carry substantial through motor traffic from our spatial dataset of the extent of LTNs, and trimmed the LTN areas to exclude buildings facing onto those boundary roads.We generated a separate set of LTN boundary roads for analysis of differences between those living inside LTNs versus those living in adjacent boundary areas."

The in-depth study is available here: https://osf.io/preprints/socarxiv/q87fu/

Research on LTN's summarised by the author on twitter, with a link to the complete study and also, a Guardian article if anyone is interested.

That looks good!

Lovely idea - my first thought though is that the best thing I think everyone can do is to stay home and wear masks, wash hands, etc. That would be the best way to support NHS workers and bring the biggest relief to them in the most effective manner. Here's a plea from a Dr... https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-55479018

Dude - that is cruel. Our household income has been halved here and we are struggling. I know you are just trolling me but - it is depressing enough around here without that.