Bicknell

problem is that the council says it wants to know what people in the area think but doesnt deliver leaflets to them. so no one hears about the review or knows its happening. meanwhile local councillor retweets call to people passing through who might not know about eg traffic now clogging up neighboring roads to take part. this isnt the transparnet consultation promised

leaflet from Dulwich alliance https://dulwichalliance.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/04/Dear-Dulwich-Neighbour.pdf

@Northernmonkey think trevor is trying to get @DulwichCentral to answer. which he hasnt so far.

@DulwichCentral shwere are those drawings from? also about the packed meetings - the more infomration that comes out, the more you realize that all the stuff we were told was rubbish. like the 47% more traffic through the junction - thats just not true

i think councillor leming was talking about teh grant for the old stone beds either side of the road in court lane (outside the houses either side) they didnt give teh total asked for. and he said something like "at some point in the next few years the greening of court lane wil cost a lot more than that" which sounded like theyd already decided the closed junction was permanent

Rockets, whenyou said about the DV junction planters"I am very surprised that they are still immovable - perhaps they have assessed that it is not a route used by emergency services." you were joking, right? southwark didnt assess anything. but the ambulance service has been asking them for months to chnage the planters to camera so ambulances can come through

good points heartblock and legalalien personally worried that teh council will suggest modelling. i think modelling can prove what ever you want it to prove. agree with what dulwich central said that data is difficult in a pandemic but its what we need to see if this ltn works. so then also agree that we need to stop teh experiment if we can see huge traffic jams on roads on the edge of the ltn. children living on those roads shouldnt have to live with massive increase in pollution even for six month/year

you may be right exdulwicher, but friends in lambeth say baseline is baffling and eqaulities impact Assessment very vague. so it sounds all open and clear but doesnt build trust. Agree with penguin and legalalien that trust is important. but also agree with legalalien tjat getting angry with councils doesnt help us come together on this forum. just hope - really hope that southwark will get the reveiw process right this time.

Rockets Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Otto2 - there are a lot of posts from me on this > thread about just that subject but, in summary > (and these are my thoughts for Dulwich): > > 1) Investment in transport infrastructure (I know > this is long-term but PTAL scores are very low in > Dulwich). Without public transport infrastructure > you cannot expect people to get out of the car. > 2) Integrated cycling infrastructure. Bikes and > cars have to coexist. Make it easier for people to > make modal shift but not by closing roads to > through traffic as that doesn't fix anything - it > makes things worse. > 3) Cycling support infrastructure. Cycling cannot > remain the domain of those with space to store > bikes. There needs to accelerated investment in > giving every household access to bike storage. > Without it cycling will remain only accessible to > the most wealthy. > 4) Proper commitment to EV infrastructure - but I > appreciate many in the cycle lobby don't want this > (as demonstrated by the minutes of the meeting > posted earlier in the thread). But if emissions > are the problem we are tacking then tackle them. > 5) Means tested road pricing. > 6) Do nothing in isolation. Do a proper area-wide > approach and include everyone in the debate and > give equal weighting to all road users. > 7) Don't put measures in place that cause more > problems than they solve and divide a community. > 8) Be transparent with the plans and put proper > monitoring in place to determine what is working > and what is not. Do not be afraid to admit that > something is not working. Agree, rockets - good points. and agree with penguin too.

sorry you feel that way Se22 and @Otto2. i dont think Rockets is doing anything diffrent from anyone on this thread - listens, and replies, puts forward other suggestions. basically southwark has set us up to argue. thats why i think the next stage has got to be proper consultation. southwark said they would announce teh rreview in february. anyone know whats happening?

Otto2 Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Research on LTN's summarised by the author on > twitter, with a link to the complete study and > also, a Guardian article if anyone is interested. > > https://twitter.com/RachelAldred/status/1366678620 > 849209344?s=20 dont think I will thanks @Otto2. know what the bias will be. dr rachel aldred, trustee of LCC (London cycling campaign) until a couple of years ago, funded by tfl (never says any of this in all her research papers) -pro LTn. and guardian article by peter walker, lives in champion hill, aslo never open about conflict of interest, advised southwark to put in modal filters (thats planters to you and me) and to reduce consultation to get changes done faster -see page 6 of minuites here: http://moderngov.southwark.gov.uk/documents/s87874/Minutes%204%20Dec%202019.pdf

@RM_Leeming (Richard Leming, one of the duwlich village ward councillors) having tough time on Twitter right now trying to defend dulwich ltn...

i wonder where this review is. promised in february. march nearly here... anyone got any news?

so @legalalien do you know if people can ask to see details of who is behind this project? the councillors must know so isnt this public information?also if something depends on whether or not they get a license, what happens to the money if the license is refused?

rahrahrah Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > If you go out early, when the roads are relatively > quiet, the speeds generally, are incredible. > Speeding is endemic and there is very little > enforcement. See also, driving whilst on the > phone. It?s all part of a culture of entitlement > amongst car owners illustrated by the completely > OTT reaction to fairly timid attempts at reducing > traffic on a handful of minor roads. I meant What you said about timid attempts at reducing traffic on a hndful of minor roads. Thats all. I dont thnk they're timid -i think they have a major effect on traffic over a big area. so i dont think reaction is OTT. And pro LTN people say, but you have to close roads to increase cycling. And there was a report that said just that - how cycling had almost doubled because of blocking a road, and the dulwich alliance looked at this and there is no evidence that backs this up. not saying this is all your fault rahrahrah and sorry if it soundedlike that. Thought youd be interested.

@ rahrahrah just saying that dr goodmans study makes great big claims about one of your timid attempts at reducing traffic, but duwlich alliance doesnt agree https://dulwichalliance.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/02/Wheres-the-evidence.pdf

And one of those minor roads @rahrahrah was studied by dr goodman, and here is what the dulwich alliance have to say about it https://dulwichalliance.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/02/Wheres-the-evidence.pdf

you know what would be great @dulwichcentral Maybe Southwark could publish its data for all to see. then anyone could analyze it. eg. how many emails objecting to the Duwlich road closures have they recieved? it would be good to know.

sorry late to all this, whats the final date for objections to ED measures?

malumbu can you remind me where you live? East Dulwich? thanks

Can anyone watch the Dulwich hill meeting, or do you have to get an invite? im wondering if the usual suspects will turn up

Seems a good idea to me...

Better public transport is wht we need to reset personal mobility in dulwich @malumbu

@malumbu there was that report a few years ago that showed people in dulwich already made mmost short journeys on foot. cycling about average, but walking much higher. Public transport lower than average because the service isnt good round here. P4 should be more reliable.

Think people on croxted road have a pretty good idea of what the reality is @DulwichCentral