louisiana

Yes, curleykaren. Some of those have one 'joining day' a year, some have a waiting list of 5+ years, some are closed entirely.... There is a shortage.

Hi simpo Yes, there are some allotments locally. You are right, there are considerable waiting lists (years) and some (most) waiting lists are closed. You'll find some more info about what some local people are doing in this post (Dulwich Going Greener): http://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/forum/read.php?5,567344 If you'd like to get involved in an allotment initiative (to achieve more allotments locally) please do drop me a line e.g. by PM. We're forming a small working party on this, and would really love to hear your views (or indeed, we'd love you to be involved in the initiative, if you have the time).

Nicely summed up, sophiesofa. I agree entirely.

dv1 Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > And whilst India, China and USA don't give a > monkeys about anything green, do you honestly > think that Dulwich library using low energy light > bulbs and you all separating your plastic bottles > is anywhere even approaching a p**s in the ocean - > not even close. I agree that India, China and the USA have a long way to go. As we do. We use far, far more energy per capita than China or India, and the USA likewise uses a lot, lot more than we do. And you're absolutely right, low energy light bulbs are not going to save the world. But it really isn't all about light bulbs. (Last year I did my windows, and this year I've done underfloor insulation to stem heat loss - so all floorboards up! messy! - which I'm expecting to impact significantly on my heating bills, to the tune of a couple of hundred pounds a year. Energy for heating is a biggie for most of us. And as energy gets more expensive - check out British Gas announcement this week :( - we feel that in our pockets.) Forgive me for being naive, but I don't think what others are doing/not doing is a reason for giving up (or not trying) on serious efforts to achieve something. We can lead by example as well as applying pressure. But I don't think we're going to convince any other country to change its ways unless we make some move in that direction too. Carrots and examples and best practice tend to be more convincing than sticks and the 'do what we say, not what we do' model. Anyway dv1, I'm really glad you're engaging in the debate. It's a debate we need to have. So good on you. (tu)

Hey, Eileen, thanks for linking up :) (There's often too much of the one group not knowing what other groups are up to > linking up good.) Do you have (informal?) links with Transition Peckham, by the way? Just trying to understand the lie of the land... (Hmm, I think Admin might end up moving all this to the Lounge. Please forgive, Admin: we'll get back onto Dulwich straight away, promise.)

I'm with ratty. For me, jobs and important services come first. I've - very late, I know! - just completed a survey in College ward about priorities in services, and I thought long and hard about what is vital (and what is not). For me it's services for the young and for the old. Stuff like Christmas decorations are nice to have but not vital. So I'm happy with Southwark not having a display. Or maybe - if they mount a display - why not exchange lights with other local authorities? I see no justification for buying any new ones.

So HAL you are arguing in favour of never using any fresh ingredients? Everything needs to be tinned or processed in some way? Golly. For me, consistency should be within parameters; absolute precision is rarely required in the domestic kitchen. So if the limes are big and juicy I add a little less so as to achieve the right consistency; I'm not concerned about precise measurement to achieve a certain result (this is not a chemistry experiment) as I rely on eye, nose, taste etc. to enable me to adjust to achieve the required effect.

I think Mitchell is right on both counts. I would have thought that even Daily Wail readers would understand/accept the self interest argument. But as we know, just spending is not the answer. As MM says, ensuring spending is carefully targetted is key. Too often, development spending seems to be tied to UK interests. (Or has that been changing? I'm happy to be put right on that...)

From the top of Gypsy Hill, northwards. From the Italian terraces in Crystal Palace Park, southwards. Most riverside views.

I was with you until 'All films by Mike Leigh'

I think you are giving this more attention than it deserves. No, it's not good, but these people are basically a tiny bunch of nuts and you are giving them more publicity, which is what they crave.

SeanMacGabhann Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Typos abound there. I was asking Concita to read > her last post as it accused me of not being in > touch with reality (essentially, mad). But her > subsequent post went on the attack saying how > offended she was that people were suggesting she > wasn't in touch with reality. Basically she gives > it but can't take it Spanish has a useful distinction between being as in current (often temporary) state or feeling, and being as in part of your character/permanent. I think when peeps have been talking about the first, other peeps may interpret it as the second, and feel aggrieved. Possibly being not totally in touch with reality (allegedly) wrt a certain issue doesn't make you (ongoing) mad, and feeling upset (temporary) about being burgled doesn't make you crazy (permanent).

Dulwich Library is now has 'Sustainable Energy - Without the Hot Air' in stock. Really practical info, such as - the economics of low energy bulbs - the truth about chargers - gadgets that really suck If you're interested in controlling your energy usage (home, transport, holidays...) this is probably a worthwhile book to look at. We're interested in other green books you'd like to see Southwark libraries stocking.

dv1, there are hundreds of countries 'overseas', and each country has very different laws and regulations. There's not really such a thing as being worse/better 'overseas'.

I've decided that with stuff I offer for free, I will only follow up responses from people who are active forum participants. I'm going to exclude anyone who just seems to be running a business and takes no part in EDF community.

I don't think a student has been a student until they've been arrested. But obviously, for things that help others, not just for self interest.

Alec John Moore Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > dv1, are you suggesting we should believe what we > read in the Daily Mail? (Alec: Oh, I hardly dared raise the Daily Wail issue. They do pay their freelancers *extremely* well though, and there will always be those writers who value that.) dv1: What do you mean by 'overseas'? Some of 'overseas' is governed by European regulations. A whole lot more is not; and in those places standards are pretty low. Both Poland and Romania are pretty bad. You 'remember reading'... Can you point to where/what/when you read? Standards are not 'high' in the UK, it has to be said. In my view, they should be higher. Why not look at the specific evidence? For example, on use of farrowing crates country by country? What the law says.

berryberry Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > I tried to get involved with dulwich going > greener. I went to speak to them about > volunteering as a gardener and was told my help > wasn't needed and but I could leaflet for them as > no one wanted to do that. The woman was actually > quite rude and inferred I didn't have > horticultural knowledge. I'm a qualified gardener. I'm somewhat mystified by this. Nobody leaflets for us. We do our publicity online. For Dulwich Vegetable Garden, we have regular work sessions mid-week and weekends, every week, and quite a few people turn up (even babies!). Here's the latest DVG update which went out yesterday from Andy: ---- Hello DVG-ers. Just to remind you that there are still work sessions in the vegetable garden - next ones are Sunday 14th, Tuesday 16th & Sunday 21st November, at 10.30-12.30. We've lifted a lot of the spent crops but need help to continue getting the garden ready for winter (gathering fallen leaves for leaf mould, spreading manure etc) to get a real headstart in the spring. Do come along and help - we'd love to see you. As usual, these are open to anyone, including toddlers! ---- Nobody is a qualified horticulturalist or qualified anything else, garden/veg-wise! And anybody can sign up online, follow the Facebook group, follow DVG on twitter etc. and get involved through any channel. > I then saw another DGG trying to encourage someone > else to help with gardening. I'm not at all sure what this means. Another DGG? As far as I know, there is only one! (?) I hope if you > sincerely want people to join your group you need > to get truly open minded and inclusive of all of > dulwich instead of moaning that the rich people > have taken all the land and its not fair whilst > turning down the help of people who > perceive to fit the DGG image. We have young families with babies and no garden, singles who'd like to socialise, veterans on bicycles, members of the Dulwich Society or Dulwich Park Friends, local teachers, professionals such as accountants and lawyers and photographers, the self-employed, eco-educators, the retired, translators, students, experts in shorthand, and the more fortunate and landed.... Some of us fall into more than one group. :) Really, it's all sorts and very democratic. All of the projects that have started are the result of people deciding they wanted to do something. I don't think we've turned down any help from anybody, any time. Is there something you'd like to do? Why not let us know? Lou

DV1 I don't think anyone's advocating rearing little piggies on Goose Green as an economic alternative, :) although fat little geese did use to hang out there on their way to market. It's about knowing what you're buying in the shops and having sufficient info, to ensure what you are buying is not full of all kinds of external and unsustainable (and often awful) consequences. So, what does the package say, in the supermarket? Does it say 'Smithfield - Made in Poland'? No, never. They never say it's made in Poland or Romania, though it often is. There's just some generic Eurpoean labelling. But the conditions in those places in Poland and Romania are truly crap, both for the animals and for those that live around these enormo-industrial places (including neighbouring kids in schools!). You would not want your dog (if you had one) to be hanging around those places. So why buy you meat from exactly those places and feed it to your kids? As a bacon addict, I'm more than dismayed at what is happening in the name of cheap food. We can do so much better. We are consumers; we can decide. We used to spend 30% of income on food; now it's more like 10% and still people say "it's too expensive". Smaller farmers are doing what they can in this country, but as the law stands they are competing under EU law against producers elsewhere that don't have to comply with the same animal welfare regulations that they do. Does that make sense to you? It doesn't to me. We really need our farmers, now and even more so in the future (when oil gets more expensive or even when the Saudi's won't sell it to us any more).

Today, I am mainly contemplating Pandora's box of koffie hopjes, collected this morning. We are convinced that there would be more addicts if these fab sweets were more widely available. Thanks for the heads up w**f. I did figure out where you meant and I shall pay them a visit.

Maybe I should let others say what they thought about the film, but I've seen it twice now and I'd just like to reassure people what is is, and what it isn't. In the film, there's lots of chat with politicians, scientists, representatives of the big US company that's now moved into Europe, local people who live near these giant factory farms, and farmers.... This is not a film of undercover how-pigs-live (there's just a tiny bit of that, a micro-segment of footage from Compassion in World Farming). It's just super-informative about what all the different parties involved think about the issue. There are significant parallels with the planned super-cow herd (was 8,000 cows, now 4,000 cows after public protest) in Lincolnshire. I'm totally happy to arrange further screening of either version (there is a director's cut too). On another issue entirely, we're planning to start doing green drinks in East/Dulwich. Completely informal gathering in a local hostelry, preferably with good beer, once a month. Where would you like to see green drinks happening? Should we rotate venues or stay in one? Which is the best night not to clash with other regular events you're likely to want to attend? Lou

Sue Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Bellenden Belle Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > > > Sue surely you can see the difference between > an > > umbrella website for the arts and a listing > > section of a local forum covering arts, jumble > > sales, public debates, etc etc? > > > > > > But if you can't, let's return to the original > > idea you suggested in your first post. > > xxxxxxxx > > I'm sorry I ever started this thread now. Don't be!!

Camberwell Village Hall: the building is owned by a Camberwell/Peckham church, but there's been a fairly lively campaign to share use for local arts and culture. I'm having a sit down meeting with Victor and co at the campaign in a few days and can maybe report back relevant/useful info that they don't mind putting in the public domain. Anther interesting project has been The Bigger Picture in Crystal Palace. That moved from a tiny shop to an old car showroom. I went to an exhibition launch there a few weeks back - good. Unfortunately it looks like they may have to move out if the owner sells as it looks like he might be about to do. The nature of pop up. I think shared space/multi-purpose is the way forward.

Yes, Thomas, another screening is certainly feasible. Maybe East Dulwich rather than Dulwich next time? Edit: in fact, we could lend out the DVD if people wanted to do domestic screenings... e.g. invite your friends around.

ianr Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > louisiana Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > It's not a public place, it's a private space > (which is locked at night) which the public are > allowed to enter at > > certain times and according to certain rules. > Much like a shoping centre or aswimming pool > building. > > I think they are all public places. Cf > http://www.wikicrimeline.co.uk/index.php?title=Pub > lic_place They are public in the sense of the public being able to enter them. But they are not public spaces in the sense that the pavements and roads are public spaces. They are each governed by a set of individual byelaws or private regulations which are particular to those spaces; and not by the byelaws that apply to the streets, squares, pavements, beaches etc. of the local authority where they are located. For example, the railway byelaws run to thirty pages, and inform you that they can eject you if you do the 'wrong' thing with your pram or dog on any railway assets (which includes stations as well as the lines, embankments etc.). You can be chucked out if an approved person says so. Every rail company used to have its own byelaws but I think they've all been rationalised now. Shopping centres are almost always privately owned. The public has access, but the rules are set by the owner, and policed by private security. You can be ejected for any reason they wish, so not exactly like being on the street. This applies as much to major developments that incorporate open-air streets (see Liverpool's L1, where formerly public streets have effectively been privatised) and the Broadgate Centre (70 acres?) as it does to smaller or enclosed developments such as Southwide in Wandsworth. Example regulations from The Glades in Bromley: you are not allowed to sit on balustrades, wear a hoodie, take photographs, shout, enter the centre with your dog unless a guide dog... and you must wear a top/shirt at all times. 'Loitering' is something many shopping centres use as grounds for removal. Privatisation of the public realm.