koteczek

the key phrase there is 'brought up to expect some gender equality'....we are brought up to believe that men and women are basically exactly the same and that we should be interchangeable and that we ought to have exact equality to men. That is the problem. We are so different. When a child is born we feel totally tied to it and more inseparable from it and we are more dependent than men in that respect...men know a child can survive without them we know it can't survive without us...and I think those basic biological differences have quite profound impacts..... I think if we were brought up to understand more about how men are different (and not necessarily in a positive way) instead of expecting them to be carbon copies of ourselves we wouldn't get so wound up when they behave in ways that we just wouldn't behave. As for inequality...men are the ones who were in the past expected to work all day and bring home money (for us to decide what should be done with it very often), men have always been the ones to die younger than we do (although that is starting to change now that women are working more), men are the ones who have traditionally had higher rates of alcoholism, suicide, homelessness etc etc and all those statistics just get worse...but we manage to go on spinning a yarn about poor hard done by females. And the only reason that we can go on spinning that yarn is cause men don't dare stand up to us

EDmummy Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > > > Our feminist sisters of the 70s and 80s fought the > right fight for which I am eternally > grateful...they just didn't tell us the whole > story. > > when I read what I have been reading here I really wonder why we should be eternally grateful to our feminist sisters (and mothers). I think women who really wanted to have always been able to do interesting things. Is there any evidence that we are a jot happier or that society is better because of feminism?

Women hold most of the cards. We can survive without men so sometimes choose to have kids without them or maybe get rid of men too easily when the going gets tough (although I appreciate that often there are bad situations women need to get out of) . Kids lose out cause sometimes they don't get to see a whole side of the family or their dad and men lose out because they don't feel that they have a purpose or can be useful any more. And then we complain about men and wonder why they get behave irresponsibly. I think when men feel we need them and depend on them they behave better. Maybe like your old school dad.

Sometimes also women don't allow the fathers into their children's life or the father's family - and it seems really unfair. It's not just about irresponsible fathers but sometimes about controlling women. Another thing is that article talked about broody men - I don't think wanting kids is the same as feeling broody. I don't think men can get broody like women can...any men out there who would contradict me?

Totally agree. I also think that young people should be able to learn vocational skills at a younger age - maybe 14. If they were doing something that they really enjoyed at school (e.g. fixing motorbikes, learning how to build houses) they might also put a lot more energy into maths and literacy ....

Did anyone read the article in the Sunday Times where Adrienne Burgess gets excited about research which finds more men want to have children than women? Once upon a time women could have kids, prioritise and enjoy looking after them and once they got to school age go and work full or part time. Now women have kids, return to work quickly, feel guilty about spending too little time with their children and stressed about their work on which the family's income may depend. Women used to want to have kids, now maybe they are less keen. Men used to go off and work all day - often at jobs they weren't actually all that keen on because they felt primary responsibility for providing for their family. Now they no longer feel that the main responsibility for providing for the family rests with them and they can even spend loads of time with their children if they feel so inclined to. Men used to be less keen on having children (apparently) but are now keen to reproduce. I am not really sure where the surprise is - nor am I sure who the winners and losers are here...

He was a very friendly, good hearted and sensitive guy. He would get distraught if a cat ever got run over. Rest in Peace G.