Just because there are other (arguably) more important precautions, doesn't mean you shouldn't use a light. Just because our cycling infrastucture is behind many other cities, doesn't mean you shouldn't use a light. Just because cars pose more of a danger than bikes, doesn't mean you shouldn't use a light. I agree Jeremy. However just because others dont have a light does not mean you should break their concentration by shouting at them, and break your concentration at the same time if you are an unfit cyclist travelling at speed. You claim my point is diversionary but I think it is central to the argument. All groups concerned are happy to criticise others and not look closer to home where they may be at fault. If everyone was really concerned for everyone else then they would find ways to help others in the community. i dont think shouting at a young cyclist is productive and posting it on a forum has close to zero likely benefit. I am sure the cyclists in question were aware of the extra risks they were taking for whatever reason but felt the risk was worthwhile to them, and unlikely to pose much risk to anyone else.