bornagain

Hi James, 'It's all rather sad. This isn't a strategy for the school but a reaction to not being chosen to provide our school.' Your comments in the previous two posts sound very political and off-putting. It may be bad news for your little project but for those parents who supported you with your quest for new school(s) surely this is very good news? Provision of new schools for this area is not an ego trip, we need to consider the overall outcome for the community. Whatever you say, Charter is a respected and much admired local school and you come across as a very sour and sore loser with your comments. ETA the change of the post thread title is noted. I for one would prefer Charter to Askes. ETA2 'New Haberdashers Aske's East Dulwich College 472 families supporting' - this is typical politico tactics. The new title is v. misleading. If you remember you coyly refused to divulge who the bidders were inspite of many requests. So those 472 families were supporting a new coed, non-religious etc comprehensive not Askes per se. In fact many may prefer Charter. AFAIK Askes are actually single sex as the teaching is all done in single sex classes.

News hot off the press! http://www.charter.southwark.sch.uk/news/?pid=3&nid=6&storyid=168 Is Charter the preferred bidder? Or is this another one in the works?

Katgod, really pleased to hear that. You can also try a variation with a mix of beef mince, diced potatoes and onions - cornish pasties! I love ready rolled pastry. The other night I baked a super quick pudding. A sheet of the puff pastry with a topping of frozen mixed berries mixed with some sugar - spread so that it looks a bit like a pizza. Baked in the oven (180) for 20 minutes to half hour until the topping is bubbling. Great with vanilla ice cream.

My daughter has hypermobility. She is 12. It is a condition with a huge spectrum from being bendy and agile to having serious other health issues. EDmummy's link has some very good (but scary) info. The good news is that majority of hypermobile people are at the good end. My daughter is at the asymptomatic end and in fact in some respects it's a blessing. She is very good gymnast, able to do splits etc with no problems. I think it's recommended that a hypermobile person does these sports such as gymnastics, dance, swimming/diving, martial arts to improve their core strength as better the muscle tone the more they support the joints. There is a hypermobility clinic at Great Ormond Street. The advice we got was for her to keep active and do the things that she loves! We saw a physiotherapist who gave her exercises to strengthen her muscles, particularly in calves as she complained of ankle pain if she walks for any length of time. A couple of tips. Writing and holding a pen can be a problem as gripping can often hurt the joints. There is a brilliant site where you can order pens with special grips that really help. Basically, thicker the barrel the more comfortable they are. http://www.cultpens.com/acatalog/Stabilo-Easy.html The other thing is footwear. Ankle boots are the way to go. We only discovered this since visiting the GOS clinic. Converse high tops, Kickers, hightop trainers. Anything that gives extra support is great. Good luck! If my daughter is anything to go by she is proud of her hypermobility as it marks her out as being different in a good way.

I'd keep both kids home and tell the school where they could stick it if they had a problem with that. Is it just me but I find all this school is a real drag, why can't we take term time holidays a bit over-entitled? Having recently watched Sports Relief and Davina's programme where many children were featured who would but can't go to school, I find it rather uncomfortable. Having watched Sports Relief with my kids and been incredibly moved by the dignity and hope that these children have, one thing I did say to mine was that school is a privilege and one that they need to take seriously.

I thought the whole point of striking is to emphasise the importance of the job done by the striker thus showing the employer/government/parents/public that their grievance should be heard. Equating holidays during term time and teachers striking for a day is not appropriate. Generally, striking teachers do it with a heavy heart knowing that their actions will impact the children they are teaching. Zoe G is right that it is the senior management who decide which classes will be sent home not the striking teachers.

Your poor son. I think you have been given some sensible advice. Mumsnet can be helpful too - there is a discussion thread on bullying and you often get good advice and support. http://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/bullying I hope the school will deal with this sensitively. I find that thinking things through first so that you have a clear idea of what outcome you want before you approach the school means that you are in a better position to negotiate the best outcome for your son. You can then direct the school to what you/he wants. I also find that an initial email often works as a starting point as you can take time to put the case carefully - and emphasise the need for discretion and sensitivity. Also bear in mind that 'gay' in teen talk means naff or stupid (and is not specifically homophobic). I hope you get it resolved soon. ETA another advantage of starting with an email is that you have something in writing in case you need it at a later day (for eg if you think that the school is not dealing with it well)

Thank you, scareyt. After posting on here I made them for supper just to make sure that they were as I remembered them. They were and the kids loved them.

I don't think I have said anything anytime that this area, including but not just ED, may need one or more secondary schools some time in the future. What I AM saying is not necessarily in 2016 and not necessarily in ED and certainly not on the hospital site. I am going to bow out of this discussion for now as I think we are just going round in circles quoting larger and larger chunks out of the report. I wanted to give this thread a more rounded view of educational provision than just the narrow ED based focus. I truly am sorry that those of you with children coming up to secondary education have this enormous worry. I think what I am saying really is that things may not be that bad. To a certain extent, you have to be optimistic and go with the flow. There are good schools in Southwark and your children will probably be lucky enough to get in one. The problem of the current system is that the possibility of free schools give an illusion of choice and also makes everyone more self-centred. I am not blaming you, it's the system. But the result is that people go for it regardless of anyone else. If I got ?1 for everyone who said 'I am opposed to free schools but...' I would not have to go back now and do some work. Best wishes everyone, I hope every child gets a school place that they are happy with.

As I read it, in the short/medium term shortage of places are planned to be plugged by expanding the 4 existing schools providing 10FE (300 places) - this takes us to 2018. Beyond that you will need another 200+ places. This will be around a school and a half. I'm not sure how big the proposed ED school is going to be, but I suppose it could be a part of that strategy - so that is for 2019 (not 2016). They are also going to see if any other existing schools could expand. 'All were identified as having capacity to expand with over 10FE of additional capacity possible at these schools with appropriate investment. ' This study was done in 2012. I have heard talk about KD expanding.

Aagh I wrote a long reply to you redjam but the system gobbled it up! The gist of it was that the report says that Southwark is planning to fill these by expanding 4 excellent schools - Kingsdale in south, Bacon's in the north and City and St Michaels in between. The schools are not FAILING, they are UNDERSUBSCRIBED. Peckham Academy for instance was rated good by ofsted. As far as know none of the secondary schools in Southwark are failing. Some schools are just not popular - for whatever reason. I think my last point was that we need to be more imaginative about making some of these schools more popular - providing school buses if they are not easy to get to - Kingsdale does that. It is much more cost effective to expand existing schools than building new ones, especially as you don't have to pay for land. Hope it posts this time.

Well Shuggy, I did say that it was my take on the report. We all interpret what we want to see from it. 'a lack of direct travel routes from home to school means that secondary schools that may be geographically close and have available places are difficult to reach.' - this has already been discussed on this thread - many schools can be reached easily by bus or train. Many schools are more accessible than Kingsdale for instance from East Dulwich. Thee report acknowledges that secondary age children can and may have to travel a bit further. It is the PREFERENCE of local parents that their children walk to school. "Although there is a sufficiency of places across the borough there is ongoing representation from some primary schools, parent groups and families in regard to accessibility of places in their preferred schools. A particular concern is the provision of accessible local secondary places in the south of the borough, where a lack of direct travel routes from home to school means that secondary schools that may be geographically close and have available places are difficult to reach. Examining demand and supply at this more local level indicates that the pressurefor places is likely to be felt in the south of boroughfrom 2016 onwards, flowing through to the rest of the borough from 2018 onwards. " It also helps if you take the entire quote. By missing out the first sentence you give the wrong impression. The report is reporting that although there are enough places, there is pressure from people in certain areas who are not happy with access to their preferred school.

I've had a read of Southwark's School Place Strategy Update that James mentioned earlier (thank you James). Interesting and I thought I would share some of the highlights with you in the hope that it may give some context to your new free school proposal and Southwark's take on their priorities and concerns. One very good thing mentioned is how good Southwark's secondary schools are - latest GCSE results take Southwark to 33rd best authority (in top 25% in the country) and the most improved London borough with average GCSE results well above national average. Not bad for a borough that is so diverse and has large areas of poverty and deprivation. The pressure right now in the next 2-3 years is to find funding and provision for increased primary places. They need to find up to 23 extra forms of entry (FE) for primary by Sept 2016. They have planned for around 21 FE of these already but all extra school funding they can secure until then will be for this extra provision - ie none available for secondary until these are sorted. More of the increased demand for places are in the north of the borough - Bermondsey, Rotherhythe etc. Which surely will impact the secondary need in the long term. The entire area around the Elephant is a huge regeneration project as well as Bermondsey and the area around Canada Water. Southwark's focus is on that and the new demands that this will generate. Personally I am hopeful that the regeneration will bring more mixed dwellings which will impact positively on the local schools (I hope that is a polite way of saying it and will offend noone ;)) As for secondary, some interesting info: 1. There is over capacity in the secondary provision across the borough until 2016. 2. 80% of unused capacity currently are due to under subscription of certains schools. Mentions some schools have 1000+ applications for yr 7 places where as others are only 200+ for same size. My interpretation is that this is due to parental choice. 3. Due to this, there is concern that some schools may become unviable and may have to close. There is worry that if more schools are set up, this will jeopardise these schools - with loss not only of school places but jobs. 4. In 2012 four very popular schools were assessed as having potential for extra capacity. This includes Kingsdale and Bacon's (both schools used by ED students). This gives places for 10FE. This theoretically would provide enough places until 2018 for the borough. 5. They are planning further assessments to see if other schools can expand. For eg. Charter has some derelict property next to it - perhaps this is an expansion opportunity? 6. It is noted that secondary provision is hard to plan as students can travel further and often go to schools out of borough. Talk of liaising with neighbouring boroughs. 7. Free schools/academies and parental choice and 'local pressure' (ED free school proposal was mentioned in this) are wild cards which I got the feeling that Southwark was obliged to consider but had little control over. It is theoretically possible to provide all extra places going into the future by expanding existing schools. I am glad I read this report as its given me a much greater understanding on the background to what is going on locally. My take on it is that the free school is a local indulgence, particularly if it is sited on the hospital site. An impartial observer would probably address the shortage by boosting and improving the unpopular schools and work with existing popular schools to help them to increase their provision. We've all got to hold on to the fact that schools in Southwark are good.

Hope you enjoy it. BTW a dab of butter in each pie before you bake makes it even more yummy!

Chicken pie is really easy to make from scratch. Rather than making a large pie (which you can, of course) I prefer to make small pastie-like parcels. Chop up raw chicken and any veg (I like mushrooms, onions/leeks/spring onions, peas etc) into small and equalish pieces, about the size of large marbles. I use skinless thigh pieces. Toss them all in a couple of tablespoons of flour seasoned with salt and pepper. Roll out the ready-made pastry and cut them into squares - I think a packet rolled out, cut into 4 is the right size. Put a couple of spoonfuls of filling into the centre of each square and seal. I like to bring the four corners together to make an origami like parcel. You can use either puff or shortcrust, either is fine. If you want to be showy, brush the top with egg. Bake in the oven (180C ish) for about a half hour until golden. The time taken will depend on how large the pies are. The meat and veg gives out a delicious gravy when cooked. Absolutely no need to add any liquid to the filling - so no danger of soggy bottoms!

Thank you simone, so it is far from a done deal then. Is anyone looking at a plan B? I hope so as it is the kind of thinking/planning that should be going on.

James said: The Belham school is in the Camberwell area and is needed to cope their equally huge extra reception places demand. I didn't realise that primaries were assigned to such a small area. Does it affect it's intake/catchment? Also you did not answer my other two questions: Will the report of 19th March be circulated? When will there be a public consultation about the proposed new school? Have local residents (ie not parents) opinions been canvassed? I am particularly interested about the latter quesion. Thanks.

Thank you James. Will the report of 19th March be circulated? You mention 2 primaries. I thought there was going to be a Dulwich Hamlet sponsored primary in Bellenden too? The thing with secondary schools as compared to primary is that the students can travel much further so the schools do not have to be on their doorstep. When will there be a public consultation about the proposed new school? Have local residents (ie not parents) opinions been canvassed?

I have roughly put together two maps with catchments of local schools in place. The size of the circles represent 1km from each school (which I believe is about the last distance given for Charter, the most popular school). I think all schools in the locality - Charter, Peckham Academy, Harris Boys, Harris Girls, Haberdashers, Elm Green, Evelyn Grace, Forest Hill Boys and Sydenham Girls - all select on distance. The bottom right hand corner is covered by Sydenham Girls and Forest Hill Boys but as the actual schools are (just) off the map, I couldn't put accurate circles there. I think you can take the Harris Boys and Girls together so that they cover the combined area for the provision of places for both boys and girls. Don't forget there are places at Kingsdale, grammars and private schools on top of this. The second map adds the proposed new school in grey. What strikes me first of all is that although people keep talking about the educational black hole that is East Dulwich - where is it? The map shows that most people living in ED is in catchment for at least one school at the moment. Doesn't quite make sense. My guess is that many people rule out single sexed schools wanting coed (especially if they have a boy and a girl so one can get in on sibling). So we add the new school. If it is going to be the hospital site, it is so poorly positioned that some people are in catchment of 3 schools but others in the areas nearer Honor Oak and Nunhead it hardly makes a difference. An option that is often discussed is to get Harris Boys and Girls to merge. I think the site that the Girl's school is on is large so perhaps there is potential for expansion there. If the education system was run in a strategic way through a central planning body, then you could probably force the school to do that. As it is you can't.

I think you have got to the nub of it, bawdy-nan when you say 'The bigger, political picture isn't going to be altered by a small scale resistance in this instance.' But this is where we disagree. The bigger, political pictures IS MADE UP of all the small scale resistances all over London and the rest of the country. The more free schools that are set up willy nilly where locals take a view that there is a demand, the more fragmented the system becomes and further we get from a properly planned, strategic system. For instance, someone mentioned about the school provision in Nunhead. If the proposed school does go ahead on the hospital site, this will not help the children in the bulged classes in Ivydale not one jot. They will simply not be near enough to get into the new school. So will there be another new school in Nunhead? Instead, we should be looking at provision of secondary places not just in ED but in Nunhead, Peckham and all the surrounding areas together and planning how they will all be provided for.

OMG bawdy-nan! I so agreed with your post and then? I nearly fell off my chair! Did you really mean to say 'I actually don't see any need for a proper constitution, terms and rules and regulations in this instance. The aim is to set up a new school and as far as I can see this is happening swiftly and efficiently and with, as far as I can gather, very little internal opposition as to the direction of travel.' I am speechless!

Do you have a credible plan for winning the ideological battle and building a much needed school in the next year or so? This phrase has repeatedly come up in this discussion. Everyone is thinking about their own children who will be seeking secondary education in the 'next year or two'. I am not convinced that it is possible to set up a school properly in such a short time. You do not have a site let alone buildings yet! I am worried that decisions will be rushed, corners cut, mistakes made. Please consider more pragmatic options such as revitalising the Peckham Academy as suggested by intexas as well so that the school (if it does happen) is done properly.

Very good post, intexas you are spot on.

James Barber Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Hi bornagain, > You are so wrong. Many families move away from the > area for decent school places. This fragments our > community and means many move here expecting to > not make long term plans. The numbers mean we need > another local secondary school. > > The Tony Blair education act created the situation > making what he called academies what the current > government call free school academies the main > route for new schools. By leaidng a cmapaign we > can select who we want to open a school rather > than waiting around for any provider to make it > happen. > James, in what way am I wrong? Wrong for challenging you or wrong for speculating about the situation? If you can come up with some firm data about the demographics of the area now and projected into the future (and not just the next few years) then we can have a real discussion. I am sorry that I'm being pedantic but saying nebulous things like 'The numbers mean we need another local secondary school.' is just not good enough when embarking on such a major undertaking. You are proposing that we spend a very large amount of tax payer's money and I think that as our elected representative you should take seriously your responsibility to be accountable. The parents on this thread are quite rightly anxious about the education of their children, but we have elected you to represent all of us - not just the parents and their families. And Tony Blair doesn't even come into it!

Also re: the proposed site, I know that it appears to be pretty much the only available site in the surrounding area but I have reservations about its suitability for a secondary school. I know that area well and have used the roads before and after school. There are three large secondary schools in very close proximity already and you are proposing a fourth. At the moment the entry and exit of the students are carefully orchestrated so that the students from the three schools are not all disgorging onto the streets at the same time. This will be much trickier with a fourth added to the mix. Many of you have a romantic notion of children walking to school peacefully with their friends but the reality is that this is the time when bullying happens the most - on the journeys to and fro the school. The teens are no longer under the eagle gaze of their teachers and some quite horrific incidents happen. I know, I have been a secondary school teacher. Added to that there tends to be a gang-like hostility between neighbouring schools (eg. there is one between Charter and Kingsdale) so local residents may not be that happy with hoards of squabbling teens walking up and down East Dulwich Grove. Which leads me to the question, has any opinions been canvassed around the locality of the proposed school? Does anyone know what the procedure is? Will there be something like a planning application so that local people can express an opinion?