charlesfare

Like I said, it's a difficult topic to approach.

I have run in to her, several times over the course of several years. I never once said you should give her money, I never have because it's clear that she's someone with a lot of mental health issues and possibly a drug addiction. I'm just saying that a) she's clearly someone who is in a really awful and desperate situation b) that there's a difference between being someone that's clearly in desperate need of the kind of help that goes far beyond just money and a greedy con artist and c) we should count ourselves fortunate that we're not in her shoes. I'll try and keep thoughts like that to myself next time though, sorry for being such a nuisance!

These kinds of threads are a real eye opener

Yeah, you're right. Now that you mention it, I've seen the whole crying and lactating scam on an ep of the Real Hustle. Oldest trick in the book.

I think people from educated middle class backgrounds don't often end up becoming so desperate for money that they end up doing the sorts of depressing things described in this thread though. Not saying their immune to those hardships, but y'know... Bit of a hard topic to approach, but I think there's a marked difference in being a scam artist and someone who literally begs and debases themselves for money. I think that eberg fella is on to something in saying that he's very fortunate not to be in that sort of a position.

speedbird Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > > In answer to Titch Juicy's question.... I found it > quite intimidating and wouldn't now take that > route as I normally do. People getting their kids ready for school is terrifying to be fair.

I was walking down the road the other day...

Hasn't every generation since the enlightenment or whatever had their own version of hipsters? Pre-Raphaelites, flappers, beatniks, teddy boys, new romantics and so on. Some of the posters here are probably old enough to have lived through or been part of at least one of those sub-cultures or some other. Funny to see people on the ED turn their nose up at today's current crop of bearded, skinny jeans and art school "hipsters" - it's partly down to that class of young people that the values of your houses have shot up so quickly and that coffee shops, art house cinemas, spangly new eateries and the likes are popping up around here. On the other hand, that could be all the more reason to hate them.

Brilliant, then we're on the same page.

I've been seeing that woman around for years now. She talks about not having enough money to buy milk for her baby/electricity for the kettle. Sometimes she exposes her self to prove that she can't breastfeed or something...hard to know what to say about someone like that. I doubt she does/hope she doesn't really have a child depending on her.

LadyDeliah Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Or maybe they just don't agree with you? Exactly! Don't like being talked to like I was born yesterday either.

Penguin68 Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > get on their high horse > > Yup, I do, when I see people using warm right-on > statements to make themselves feel good. The > issues of class and class envy and class anger and > class hatred isn't helped by wooly statements. > Granted it's not covered by legislation, but try > substituting the words 'black' or 'Jewish' or > 'Christian' or 'Moslem' or 'female' or 'disabled' > or 'young' or 'old' for some of the comments made > about the desirability or not for a particular > class to be, or not to be, in ED. To treat people > (any people) as an 'unworthy' group because you > prefer your group is an unhealthy attitude. False equivalence

There's one opening inside denmark hill station as well. How many coffee shops does one place need?

scareyt Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > > It sounds like you have equated this thread with > the front gardens one, and decided that somehow > the OP was objecting to the presence of a black > man on her doorstep in the same way that other > people were objecting to rubbish and weeds in > other people's front gardens, as some kind of > undesirable rubbish spoiling their view. If this > is genuinely what you believe then I feel great > compassion towards you. Cheers for the "great compassion" but nah, that isn't what happened. Believe it or not, I've got the cognitive faculties to separate two completely unrelated threads about to different topics. Read that back and ask yourself how patronising you sound.

scareyt Wrote: >As it stands, it just sounds like a simple part of the description given following a suspicious encounter with a strange man in case anyone else had the same thing happen to them. Yeah, but the stranger in question was already off on their way by the time the OP got to the door. No one's managed to go in to any real detail about what exactly is suspicious about having your door knocked on. Where's the threat in someone cycling away for your house and saying "wrong door"? >You develop a fine-tuned instinct for behaviour that isn't right and could turn into a threat, and that's what the OP sounds like to me. I've developed a "fine tuned instinct" for certain types of behaviour, too. Please don't imply that your experiences and knowledge are some how more valid than my own. I'd be on the same page as you in there had been some sort of confrontation or act of violence, but I know first hand that black skin causes people to see threatening or suspicious behaviour where there is none.

scareyt Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > charlesfare Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > >Sexism is just as abhorrent a racism. Comparing > someone to Hyacinth Bucket isn't sexist. Assuming > that a black guy who >knocked on the wrong door by > accident *must* be up to no good is. People who > think like that deserve to be robbed >several > times over as far as I'm concerned. Go away. > > > Of course it's sexist - Hyacinth Bucket is a > sexist and very dated stereotype. She doesn't > exist. That programme would never get made now > because people would realise that it's nothing but > a stupid one-dimensional mockery of a female > stereotype. By drawing on that sexist stereotype > and using it to justify your aggressive thoughts, > you are indeed being abhorrently sexist. > > But the phrase that really enraged me was > "pearl-clutching" which you used twice. This > again, is not a real thing that real people do. > It's something that actresses used to do to > portray a stereotype about women, one which mocks > and belittles their fears. And one which you have > accepted as reality and then projected onto people > commenting on this post. Think about it. If an > actual person was actually clutching at the > necklace they were wearing in real life, it would > only be because they were terrified that someone > was about to rip it from their neck. Do I need to > list all the times that I and other women I know > have been attacked / assaulted / threatened / > robbed by men in order for you to understand how > obnoxious it is to use this phrase as an insult > and to say that "those people" deserve to be > burgled? > > Think harder before you employ stereotypes like > this next time. Especially when you are in the > middle of trying to make yourself look like a > stand-up guy by calling out racism. I get where you're coming from, but pearl clutching is just a figure of speech in this context, I'm not talking about women being assaulted (no one was until you mentioned it).I'm aware of the realities regarding women and assault but it wasn't my intention to make light of that. I apologise for the wrong choice of words, but let's not switch goal posts here. Having said that, the traits of snobbery, paranoia and a fear/disdain of anyone different present in a character like Hyacinth Bucket are not inherently female traits. It's a middle class stereotype, not a sexist one. And to be frank, you don't have to hang around here too long to see that those traits do exist among the denizens of EDF, regardless of how much people would like to deny it or play it off as neighbourly concern. This thread was made around the same time some feckless busybody had a thread complaining about the declining state of people's front gardens and moaning about East Dulwich devolving in to a "slum" because of it, which is exactly the kind of thing Hyancinth Bucket would blather on about. I'm not trying to make myself look like a "stand up guy" either. I just happen to be one of many people living in this area who fit the description of "black youth on a push-bike" and take umbrage with the idea that someone of my appearance simply knocking on a door is enough to arouse suspicion and a 101 call. Do *I* have to list the times that *I* and other black men have been treated like criminals, stopped and searched and singled out simply for being somewhere people thought we didn't belong in order for *you* to see why a thread like this might piss me off? The OP wasn't threatened or assaulted, they got spooked because they saw someone they thought didn't belong briefly darken their doorstep. I will mock and belittle the petty and sheltered fears of people who think like that as much as I damn well please.

Loz Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > charlesfare Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > Assuming that a black guy who knocked on the > wrong door by > > accident *must* be up to no good is. > > Once again, you are wilfully misrepresenting the > OP. He/she never said the person "must" be up to > no good. They just found it suspicious. > > Just stop it. It's childish. As I've said before, what is suspicious about knocking on the wrong house and saying "sorry, wrong number"? Getting directions wrong or misreading a door number is something that's happened to all of us at least once.

scareyt Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > But it was a specifically female caricature, as is > "pearl-clutching". And you did specifically say > that those people in your caricature - ie women > fearful of a crime - deserve to be victims of that > crime. Which is a very ugly thought. > > I didn't see the Prunella comment as it had been > deleted before I read the thread. I just wish that > all the people who trip over each other in their > eagerness to call out racism could lose the > collective blind spot that exists about sexism. Sexism is just as abhorrent a racism. Comparing someone to Hyacinth Bucket isn't sexist. Assuming that a black guy who knocked on the wrong door by accident *must* be up to no good is. People who think like that deserve to be robbed several times over as far as I'm concerned. Go away.

scareyt Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > charlesfare, I find it bizarre that you are so > keen to raise suspicions of racism but are happy > to throw in stupid misogynistic stereotypes like > "pearl-clutching Hyacinth Bucket types" and go on > to make a comment that is just EDF-speak for > "B***s get what you deserve". > > Racism is socially unacceptable but sexism is > fine???? > > If women are scared of crime it's because they > have good reason to be. And I am fully aware that > structural racism exists and that racism can exist > where none was intended but I don't think the OP > was an example of that - it wasn't "this happened > and it was scary because he was black" it was > "this happened and it was scary because it was an > odd thing for a person to have done late at > night." The hyacinth bucket comment was a reference to that character's curtain twitching, hoity toity keeping up with the jonse's nature that's exhibited by a lot of the posters here. Nothing to do with her being a woman. I never said "bitches get what you deserve" though, that's just you putting words in my mouth. In fact I never once mentioned anything relating to anyone's gender and I have no idea whether the original poster was a woman or a man. And seeing as Prunella was the person who wrote the original(now deleted) racist comments, I stand by my comment to her and hope she takes a long walk off a short cliff sometime soon.

It would seem that trying to flog a dead horse is pretty easy though ;)

I like all of Louisa's posts and the way they got people's backs up. Brilliant stuff.

Fuck off Prunella

Yeah, those are fair points really.

Then why say anything at all, that working in a cinema is apparently no more difficult than bar work is a totally moot point.

Otta Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > "Yeah, I guess you're right. Why even pay the > buggers at all?" > > > Stupid comment. > > > I'm not saying it's a good situation, and that > they all shouldn't be paid more. I'm simply saying > that working in a cinema is no more difficult than > bar work. So what? Bars should pay their staff more too. What's your point?