Civilservant, it was Bonnie who said they were afraid of people. Julie just gave an example of a time when a rat showed no fear. Anyway, how are you to know whether or not they're harbouring diseases, except wait until it bites you or your child? Also, I don't understand the comment you made about foxes, they mostly seem afraid when you chance upon one, even from several metres away. Julie, that's a horrible story. I would have grabbed the baby and made a run for it - not at it, opposite direction =8-0