Chener Books

You guys need a little historical perspective for this thread. John K

I don't mind if it is Ascension or Rogation as long as the squire, the vicar, the lawyer, and the doctor provide the free feast for the beaters. If you're intending to reinstate this tradition you may wish to compile a list of 2010 equivalents who have inherited an historical obligation to dig deep into their pockets and pay for a free feast for the beaters. John K

Ted Max: I didn't know there was society in Peckham. I will try to be respectful as befits my lowly station in life. silverfox: So far I have not found any evidence to show that Friern Manor has ceased to exist. It is possible that Camberwell Vestry "bought out" the manorial rights early on in the 19th century. Something to investigate further. The rest of your question needs a long convoluted answer, but you are on the right lines. I'm afraid you'll have to take a rain check. John K

I never expected such an erudite question. Dewhirst's map of the Parish of Camberwell (c1842) clearly shows the original overground course of the River Peck. John K

Quality naughtiness might have been well rewarded. However, I was expecting questions such as: How confident are you about the course of the River Peck before it was culverted? John K

Oh, silverfox! If you had been naughty you could have been the slave and legally owned property of your feudal lord and been required to do his bidding at all times.

I am about to go public on my reconstruction of the early mediaeval bounds of Friern Manor. To save myself from potential embarrassment - has anyone already done this work? Thanks. John K -------------- The present East Dulwich is Friern Manor with bits and pieces tagged on in modern times. The map has the Friern Manor reconstructed bounds marked in violet. The bounds are not where some people will expect. This draft map needs to be digitised as a GIS layer. The GIS software and the Ordnance Survey datasets are loaded. I've had a personal demonstration of how to use both, but it will be a steep learning curve. I will be writing a short evidence based paper to explain where I have placed the bounds. Then I expect an "interesting discussion". I will try to answer any questions that anyone wants to ask here. John K

This thread was swiftly transferred to The Lounge; perhaps because the of the club's name. The club is not in Streatham and nowhere near Marlborough. How about a change of name to "The East Dulwich Cricket Club"? John K

Here are scans of two small engravings published in 1841. They show the Ladlands northern and southern slumps. The Victorians did not build here. John K

Brickmaking was the major East Dulwich industry in the 19th century. Firstly supplying bricks for urbanisation north of East Dulwich and latterly for East Dulwich itself. The last brick field seems to have closed before 1880. It is likely that some of the smaller brick fields are not shown on maps because they completed their production cycles between map revisions. The brick fields were on the lands of Friern Farm. This was roughly the area bounded by East Dulwich Road, Peckham Rye (road)/Forest Hill Road, Wood Vale, and Lordship Lane. I assume they were let out on leases. The London Clay was 'mined' by digging clay-pits. As they were on undeveloped agricultural land it is likely they expanded sideways rather than downward. The layer of London Clay under East Dulwich is quite thick. If they were 'mined' to to near exhaustion we would expect to still see the remains of clay pits 100 feet or more deep. If they were 'mined' to exhaustion, that is down to the chalk aquifer, we would now have a number of old clay pit deep ponds. Shallow clay pits are likely to have been backfilled before housebuilding. With the boom in housebuilding over the massive demand for bricks faded away. The benefit of profit dervived from decreasing demand was eventually trumped by the increase in land values. At some tipping point the owner of Friern Farm decided to sell the farm lands to the British Land Company which sold on small building plots for individual terrace houses at ?4 a plot. It is interesting to note where the Victorians did NOT build houses. John K

Two pointers to help avoid these problems: [1] Check the British Geological Survey map for East Dulwich. Identify the marked clay-slumps, and follow the topography to identify the line of potential future clay-slumps. [2] Check a mid-19th century Ordnance Survey map and identify the brick-fields. If you pay for a survey make sure the surveyor addresses these points. Our local estate agents are the experts and will advise you which properties not to buy. John K

I'd check out whether the armed merchant cruiser HMS Marmora was built before 26 (sic) April 1914 if only to eliminate this possible connection. John K

Great photos, Ian. I like the contrast between the lower middle class vicarage tea party at the end of a hard day and the mass feeding of the East Dulwich working classes. > the old Manor House garden Interesting. Do you know whether they were refering to the new (c1700) Friern Manor/Farm House, or the original medieval Friern manor house that was at a different location? John K

Two poor quality photographs. John K

Parasites.

> The land in front of the The Fox on the Hill in Denmark Hill has never been built upon throughout the ages because it is a burial ground for victims of the plague. > Not a lot of people know that. Because it's not true? John K

SalubriousSyddersin, What about the evidence for your statement that Sydenham could not decide where it was? John K

To be serious for a moment... If there is any fresh evidence about fluctuations of the southern border of Brixton Hundred, or why the southern boundary of Camberwell was moved northward c1888, I'd willingly trade the information for a bottle of East Dulwich currency. John K

The people of Sydenham (Kent) crossed the county-line and stole land from the people of Dulwich (Surrey). I have the evidence if anyone wants to see it. John K

I don't know where Sydenham woods are. John K

... I am looking for an archaeologist to do some directed research and write an article on pre-mediaeval "East Dulwich". John K

Polly Bird's book "Making A Splash: The History of Dulwich Baths" published about 20 years ago might prove useful. The Local Studies Library probably has a copy. We have a handful of copies left too. John K

Photograph from English Heritage 2010 At Risk Register

Neologism for the OED. Ligaturiosity The skill of tying things up in complex knots. 2010 East Dulwich Forum

> The decision to sell some land was based on current English planning law and planning policy guidelines concerning the possible uses of Metropolitan Open Land (a class of land which didn't exist in the 1880s). (Some have argued that this present case might set a precedent for other MOL elsewhere, though). That means Goose Green, Peckham Rye Common and Piermont Green are not safe. John K