Townleygreen

What about the main argument, mako? 1 We are due to have 2 million more people in this city of ours in the next 10-15 years or so. That's a 25% increase. What's that going to do to your precious car driving experience then, if we do nothing, mako? 2 The pollution. more than 9,000 people die each year from breathing in the polluted air produced by your precious cars, dear mako. Add those two together. Now do you fancy your future and that of your children. Just try to face the facts, your current car based lifestyle is leading nowhere.

I think the Mayor is to blame: it surely is his job to explain why we're having these changes and to "sell" them to us.

wulfhound, I totally agree.

No I am sure we can't exactly duplicate the Amsterdam cycling thing, but we could have a pleasant urban environment where people can feel safe about walking and cycling to school (which is nearly always not too far). Some will need to drive, and will do so. Taking all those cars away from the school run would go a long way to sorting out some at least of our city's transport problems. Drivers say that during school holidays the roads are much quieter - so one aim could be to achieve this on every week day, maybe? Properly designed Quietways could achieve that. Others could cycle to a station and train in.

I think it needs some city-wide statements from the Mayor first, explaining what is needed and why, and over what timescale. Can't see him doing it though!

What will happen is that the drivers who have alternatives will presumably use them! Leaving you some space to do your job, EDoldie!

Yes, first mate, that's fair enough but our politicians should be arguing (as I am trying to!) the case for these changes not simply trying to push things through. But they need to happen before our city begins to really suffer. Maybe the new segregated cycling lanes will help persuade people but politicians are not doing their job for the good of the whole conurbation.

seconds darling

But London could be more like Dutch cities and that is what we should be aiming for. But I agree, not imposed but by persuasion. You still haven't addressed my 3 points.

TheCat said "Yes, we all need a 'wide perspective' on the future, but one eye must be kept on the short term practicalities for the majority of the population." For your information, 70% of London households did not own a car in 2011* and that % is continuing to rise. What was that about the majority? I think you are in a smallish minority. *http://www.uncsbrp.org/driving.htm

richard tudor,you said "Their infrastructure is different and most cities have a cycle system that has developed over decades going back to the war when a lot was rebuilt. " Not so. The Dutch didn't start redesigning their cities to make them people friendly until the mid 70s. You're the one living in a dream world, imagining you can carry on polluting your fellow man for as long as you like. Why haven't you addressed my 3 points? Presumably you have no answers except keep on driving until you reach your happy gridlock. :-)

first mate, these schemes' aims are directed at making cycling easier and safer for those who are too scared to cycle on our present all-too dangerous roads. Therby making cycling "owrk" as you put it for more and more of us. I suggest you take a close look at Copenhagen or Amsterdam and how families are able to cycle easily together (or apart) in those people friendly cities. It would be wonderful if London could be so pleasant.

TheCat, coal fired power plants are being rapidly phased out, that's why we're about to spend a fortune on nuclear ones!! The reason coal plants are being phased out is because they contribute to global warming. their pollution was filtered out years ago. You're living in the past! No one is saying you won't be able to drive your son to nursery any more! Really, you don't seem to understand the issues here. People need to have a wider perspective on how things are going to have to be in the future.

Cyclist utopia? Who's talking about that? It would be nice if we had a "cyclist utopia" like the Dutch cities. They seem to manage deliveries. Deliveries can be done at night when the roads are empty - no pollution. Bicycles with large boxes on the front can also deliver, and couriers can be cyclists too. And you don't seem to have an answer to the fact that London will have two million more people - that is 25% more than today over the next few years. What happens when they want cars like you do? Imagine the frustrations and traffic jams and Are you happy that even more Londoners die each year from vehicle pollution? Answer those questions please.

JH, answer me this - London's population is growing fast - what happens when the extra 2 million people buy cars? How impossibly polluted and frustrated are we going to be then? How many Londoners have to die each year from pollution so that you and your family can travel together?

This is a way of encouraging fewer people to use their cars, Hagrid. Presumably, people will get fed up with the congestion and find a different way to get around, or a different route to work if one exists.

Rockets, I disagree with your second para. How come my three children who live and work in London (not at home anymore though) can survive without cars? They all have driving licences, but see public transport as the best way to get around the city. One cycles everywhere she possibly can. I suggest it is the older generation that needs to change its ways. You haven't addressed my points about pollution. Presumably you are happy to see so many Londoners die each year from YOUR pollution from YOUR car? Where do you suggest the two million new Londoners fit into this? Where do you think their cars are going to go if we follow your ideas?

That's good to hear, Otto. Young people in London are choosing NOT to own a car these days as has been widely reported in the media. They are just being realistic.

They ARE pragmatic but they won't work unless people like us support them and try to make them as good as we can. Keeping the the status quo just isn't a possibility. Unless you want to demolish whole areas of London to create new roads to cater for London's rising population. Why do you think London's 20-35 year olds are rejecting owning a car? They're being realistic.

You are missing the point, maxwelland. Reread my first three points: London's population is growing fast - it will be close to 10 million in the next few years. London's roads are not capable of infinite expansion. Already air pollution from motor vehicles is at impossibly high levels, leading to thousands of deaths each year. The idea is that children will cycle or walk to school on these safe streets. Your London campaign idea won't work unless it addresses the above issues. Which houses would you like to see demolished to cater for the road space that you'll need to continue the lifestyle you unrealistically cherish?

I don't know, presumably there are plenty of side streets (not involved in these Quietways?) that could take them. I agree it is creating stress, and it doesn't help that what I said in my post is not being spelled out by Boris & Co, so many are still in the dark about this.

chark

Look, folks, face the facts! London's population is growing fast - it will be close to 10 million in the next few years. London's roads are not capable of infinite expansion. Already air pollution from motor vehicles is at impossibly high levels, leading to thousands of deaths each year. What is the answer? Clearly, to discourage motor transport as much as possible, and encourage walking, cycling and public transport. THIS is the reason that these changes are being brought forward. Stop burying your head in the sand - you can use your car for driving out from your home into the country, or use a zip car. Get yourself a bicycle and use these routes when they are up and running.

Look, folks, face the facts! London's population is growing fast - it will be close to 10 million in the next few years. London's roads are not capable of infinite expansion. Already air pollution from motor vehicles is at impossibly high levels, leading to thousands of deaths each year. What is the answer? Clearly, to discourage motor transport as much as possible, and encourage walking, cycling and public transport. THIS is the reason that these changes are being brought forward. Stop burying your head in the sand - you can use your car for driving out from your home into the country, or use a zip car. Get yourself a bicycle and use these routes when they are up and running.

Behind closed doors - Charlie Rich