Dmlt

Well fazer you are wrong. I've been installing sash windows for the best part of 20 years. I can only install 2 boxsash windows per day fully finished (3 in pvc) at a push (thats with two men) ?120 is not the material difference - yes if you use cheap timber. You know nothing about what i do for my customers as then you would realise what we offer is amazing value for money considering the work that goes into fully replacing a victorian boxsah window. I leave this thread here and only hope the origional poster locks the thread to stop your ill informed opions about boxsash windows.

Manufacturing softwood vs hardwood is a different process - softwood tooling would last five minutes when used for hardwood. The cheap windows you mention would not include the draft proofing all architraves, nosings, fully finishing it, disposal of rubbish a ten year guarantee, an installation carried out by skilled craftsman - i pay more for justthe windows than the prices you suggest and i know for a fact pvc manufacturers make more per window than hardwood manufacturers. Not sure why i feel i need to justify it to you fazer. I can only say some like to make their kitchens out of recycled junk, some from ikea, some from magnet some have very high quality hand made ones - you may think them crazy as clearly there is a hugh price gap between each - it dosn't make one a no brainer over the other or over priced they are different. The bespoke are not ripping people off just offering what their customers want.

I feel quite offended that you write I rip people off for charging A fair price for products we supply. I might go and write a letter to audi or rollsroyce even - as i can can buy a car that goes from a to b for a tenth or a 100th of the price.....

Well our hardwood won't rot in no time. Sapele lasts 15 years in a stake test (untreated timber hammered into ground at an angle - test over when wood rots and timber hits the ground) so painted it will last much longer. New water based micro pourus paint systems should last a minimum of 5 years before repainting - no sanding or re priming required - just top coat. Pvc box sash will last approx 25 years - timber boxsash should last a life time. So by the time you replace pvc windows 4 times or maintain timber box sash for 100 years i'm guessing it will even out - depends on the outlay your prepared to put up. As windows paying for themselves i don't get it. Nothing i have ever bought paid for itself? If you buy new windows you get benifits of being warmer, better security, something nice and new, something you can open with ease, if windows really paid for themselves everyone woud have new windows. The choice between wood or pvc is individual and decisions are made by the people who buy them not by people who sell them. Some houses are improved by pvc some are not - equally there are some bad timber ones out there - you can see many examples of each down oakhurst grove. At the end of the day if 2k is too much for timber window no one would buy them, but people do. I whish they were cheaper then i would sell lots more. But If you look at materials, workmanship and quality of hardwood a boxsash window fully fitted and finished in your home i think 2 k is tremendos value for money.

I thought we were talking about timber? But you are right pvc are very good value, do a great job of insulating and noise reduction and look great. It is all in the finish and survey. And some systems are definitely better than others.

Fazer 40 years ago you could fill your car up for 7p it's now ?6 so applying same logic to your home bills it won't take that long to recoup the money..... Any boxsash window bought primed and single glazed is a as different as a 1963 morris minor and a brand new ford focus, one may have origonal character but he other beats it on every other aspect. Yes you maybe able to fix the morris yourself but in this day and age there are few people who want to. A proper new boxsash window that is double glazed should have hidden draft exclusion, be factory finished with a proper paint system, use hardwood, engineered oak (engineered softwood moves too much to use for whole window) or accoya (has a few paint reaction issues though, and movement)be fitted by a fensa or certass registered company/person,have at least a Ten year insurance backed guarantee. If you are replacing a window in it's entirety you are breaking the law if it does not comply to energy ratings unless you have specific permission i.e. house listed, conservation area etc. I could pay alot less for many things i own and use but usually in the long run paying less will cost more?

What about using some natural materials like some branches to hang the stuff on? Or maybe some manakins having a picnic? Just ideas, not really sure what type of stuff you want in the window?

Please follow this link and read this if you still unsure. http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/uploads/1app/guidance/guidance_note-listed_building_consent.pdf Please pm me or call me with any further questions. Many thanks David

Please follow this link and read this if you still unsure. http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/uploads/1app/guidance/guidance_note-listed_building_consent.pdf

Moeispro, Sorry if i offended mentioning pvc windows:-$ As far as i am aware a grade 2 listed building does not come under fensa or certas and needs separate approval from the council. There is no way around it and if you make alterations without approval they can make you put it back as it was. I have only worked on 3 grade 2 listed buildings in last 20 years of being a window installer but have found in general with the right approach planners are more sympathetic to change than one might think. However i have never dealt with southark or lambeth regards to listed buildings. The final answer i believe is you need planning or listed buildings consent :)) I do realise james is councilor saying you don't but this is only for conservation or areas without any restrictions.

@moe A grade2 listed building needs special permission. Also repairs will be VAT free. I have installed pvc box sash windows into a grade2 listed building in reigate. It took pictures and meetings but approval was given as the home owners could not afford timber windows and they were an improvement on the current windows they had. Regarding planning permission in other areas this is not needed if the company replacing the windows are either FENSA or CERTASS registered. In a conservation area it is not needed if replacing like for like but any material change or style change would need planning consent. To the op. no planning permission is not needed but you will need a certificate from fensa or certass showing the windows have been fitted and registered correctly. It is also true if you only replace this is classed as a repair and no proof of anything would be required. It's never the best solution though especially if your present sashes are pretty rotten.

Hello toffeapple, I think you will be dissapointed with the results of replacing the sashes alone. In my experience they can only install a 12 mm unit which is very ineffective for noise or heat insulation. Applying draft proofing to them does not last as the windows are not designed for it and makes painting them very difficult. It is very difficult to maintain the full movement too as the weights need to be larger and the boxes are very small so they have to made longer restricting the movement. If you do go down this route ensure the frames are stripped back to base coat and thougherly primed and repainted with a proper paint system - otherwise there really is no point in doing it. A 3 sided boxsash bay replaced in timber would be around ?4500 give or take for sizes but should last a life time or ?2800 in pvc. I have installed them in a grade 2 listed building and many onsevation areas so they can't be that bad. It will never make sense to me to replace a small part of something that is 100 years old that needs constant maintenance to keep tiptop (original boxsash should be painted every two years if you want keep them and overhauled every 10 - that why they lasted 100years people just paint and forget) Pm me for any furher info David

I have installed new windows in 3 different houses in last year with original shutters. The survey took a bit of time to find a way to keep them but we did it and they look great. Normal size in hardwood would be about 5-6000 for a bay window. 3000 ish for pvc. David

Hi, We do PVC box sash and Hardwood box sash - both double glazed (as they have to meet certain energy ratings to meet building regulations) The way we replace them is very sympathetic. Especially the inside where there is alot of space to made up by removing the boxes. We use fully finished timber architraves and nosing. The look of the new windows will also depend on how they are surveyed with even the best windows looking out of place if they are too small (the amount of frame showing externally) In my opinion about replace or not and will it add value. If you windows are not original now you will do no harm to the value of your home. If you live in a street with no replacement windows and everyone has timber sash you may devalue it against those with original features. But otherwise a good installation in PVC sliding sash or timber will only make things better. We have just done an install of 10 PVC sash windows (no bays) and 1 dormer window in PVC and it came to ?9500 - for an idea on price. David www.blueskywindows.co.uk