first mate

I wish posters would stop falling back on easy insults like 'nimby' and 'curmudgeon' in order to justify a point. Whenever perceptions about noise impact differ from the views they hold and by extension think everyone else should also hold, there is a tendency to start to attack the poster for daring to express an opposite or different view. As Angelina points out, her parents are not anti children and just because they found noise levels at Kew intolerable does not make them curmudgeons either (a nasty and unecessary comment). It is a fact that hearing changes with age and this may have some bearing on lowered tolerance to certain sounds. All of these parks are shared spaces for the use of all, we should remember that. As it happens, I do not have a problem with the Horniman plans, they seem okay to me, but I am sympathetic to concerns about noise and feel those concerns should be expressed without posters feeling they will be shot down in flames for so doing.

elloriac Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > I've received my sticker but still no big brown > bin to attach it to. Anyone had a bin delivered > yet? Ditto

Where this has really gone wrong is if you have paid up and subscribed but do not yet have a brown bin but do have some brown bags. It is not clear if your brown bags will be collected in the usual way, until such time as a brown bin appears? And, once the bags run out are you expected to buy more until the brown bin appears? I am hoping and assuming that it is not now a case of having to buy more bags as well as organise pick-ups, despite having paid for the garden waste service?

A few weekends ago when the weather was warmer and we were outside, I counted planes coming over at around 1 every minute, they were low too. rollflick Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > In response to those absolutist, bah humbug > comments above, over 28% of all the people in the > EU affected by the highest levels of aircraft > noise are under the Heathrow flight path, many of > them here in south London. While Concorde was just > a few times a day, the flights now are far more > frequent and as often as every 90s, especially > first thing in the morning. There are serious > economic and health impacts, putting more pressure > on our NHS for instance. > > As this recent report by the London Assembly notes > there are particular issues for those areas also > affected by City but also practical solutions such > as respite periods and opposing further expansion: > > https://www.london.gov.uk/sites/default/files/airc > raft-noise-report.pdf > > Definitely agree about the need to measure noise > with windows open for hot summer nights, which are > being made more extreme by air travel induced > climate change. Unless Heathrow wants to buy us > all double glazing, A/C and zero carbon > electricity to power them that is.

I cannot understand how Southwark have managed to print leaflets, market the scheme online, charge and take money for the service but yet not have the necessary equipment available to make it actually useable. I'd love to get to the bottom of who is overseeing this.

I'm not sure the 'service' has been rolled out at all.

If the dog has a bite history and caused deep punture wounds requiring medical attention, there might be reason to take drastic measures but it is not clear if this incident involved a bite, as in bruising and wounding, or was more of a nip. The latter is obviously anti social and unpleasant but should not mean the dog is PTS. As others have suggested, muzzling and training are probably more appropriate in that sort of scenario.

Thanks James and fingers crossed.

Thanks for your reply James, In regard to garden waste, some like me have paid up the ?25 but have no brown bin or sticker! At the time of signing up and paying, I asked for and ordered both a brown bin and a sticker. You say the stickers are on the way but what about the bins? Historically I have used brown bags so I take it the waste company will continue to collect these until the mystery bins and stickers finally appear? I have tried and failed on four separate occasions to phone into the relevant department and get any coherent explanation of what is going on or a timeframe for delivery of the bins. Why has Southwark taken payment for a system that has not yet been properly setup and organised?

I assume that James McAsh will clarify what, on the face of it, looks to be an appalling shambles. Does this mean the consultations have been a waste of time - not to mention money- or are they necessary to trigger a borough-wide CPZ? MarkT Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > James, on the subject of the Council?s plan to > introduce a borough-wide CPZ: > > May 6 I quoted Southwark?s Local Implementation > Plan, dated October 2018 > ?? To enable us to better manage limited space, we > will introduce more Controlled Parking Zones with > the aim of covering the whole borough by 2025.? > > May 15th, you responded: > MarkT and TheArtfullDogger > Thanks for raising this with me. I have looked it > into and am still confused by the reference in > this document. Cllr Livingstone is looking into it > further but assures me that nothing borough-wide > is currently planned. Looking at trends across > London and other major cities, it is believed that > demand for controls will increase over the coming > decades but that is not consistent with the 2025 > date you quoted. I will find out more and let you > know. > > Hi MarkT > Just realised that the document you linked was a > consultation document and not the final version. > The final version includes no reference to 2025 > and instead talks about a general strategy to > reduce car use by 13% by 2041. > > James, > I see now that you are correct in that the > document I had previously quoted was the draft and > not the final version. > > Southwark?s Local Implementation Plan 3 Final > March 2019, states on page 25, > Mission 4 Reduce Traffic - How ? ?Introduce > Borough wide CPZ? > > So, Cllr Livingstone assures you that nothing > borough-wide is planned. > > So, you apparently read the relevant section in > the final version, noted the removal of the 2025 > date, but you did not confirm the retention of the > words ?Introduce Borough wide CPZ?. > > So, between the draft plan published in October > 2018, and the final version published in March > 2019, the Council carried out an elaborate > ?consultation? on local CPZs, promising selective > introduction, while the outcome is already > determined by the Local Implementation Plan to > introduce a Borough wide CPZ. > > James, in your responses above, you focussed on > the date of 2025, which is of course irrelevant to > our line of inquiry. The relevant fact, which is > now clear to me, if not to you and Cllr > Livingstone, that Southwark Council Plans to > introduce a Borough-wide CPZ.

I would also much prefer something other than pizza but we are in 'nappy valley' and I guess pizzas appeal to that demographic as an easy family meal out- most kids love it.

Informed by S'wark contact centre that 'they are a bit behind' but delivery of bins will definitely happen this week.

I paid for service and also checked the box for a brown bin- I have always used bags. I have a few bags left and assume these will be collected in lieu of the undelivered bin. However, not sure what happens when bags run out and if still no sign of bin. Would S'wark expect me to purchase more bags?

I have asked James McAsh on his thread to try to give a steer.

Katanita, You are not alone. Having paid ?25 for the new garden waste service, I have yet to hear anything that makes sense about delivery of brown bin and sticker. James Barber posted that they will take 60 days to arrive. Surely this is not true? James ( McAsh) Is there any clarity on when the bins and sticker will be delivered and until then what happens to garden waste collection for those, like me, who have paid up for the service?

Good points Nigello although I hope that we do not go the way of other boroughs in terms of the volume of events in future (no pun intended). Nigello Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > I didn't hear a thing, though I did last year, so > that is a success. Having that section of the park > sectioned off for a weekend would be ok, but it is > not a weekend - it is at least a week. Money is > needed for services and people like music, all I > ask is that optimum results be achieved for those > who go to the concert, those who use the park and > those who live nearby. (There will likely be some > overlap so it is not a zero-sum game.) It needn't > be an exercise is umbrage and antagonism. > The panelling was tagged almost within a day of > its being put up, which was ugly and, well, > expected. It doesn't mean though that it should be > accepted. > Turn the volume down just ten or fifteen percent > and it is likely that the music will sound better > and people living nearby will be more accepting. > Let the council be explicit in how much money it > raises and where it actually goes, publish that on > forums like this and in the local press.

I think that's the concern Louisa, that we face creeping privatisation of our public spaces. And, thus far, money made by the council does not go towards upkeep of the park but to fund more events, albeit free for now.

Food for thought: https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2018/aug/31/londons-parks-accused-of-creeping-privatisation-of-public-spaces

Pretty outrageous. I have been using bags but signed up for a brown bin and stickers. So, does this mean that I will get a supply of free brown bags and these will be collected in the usual way until such time as the bin and sticker appears? How can the council charge and take payment for a system that is not yet up and runnng?

Rather like your hyperbole about uptight, over- entitled nimbys. pk Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > first mate Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > Pk, let us agree to differ; you think residents > > who found the sound levels uncomfortable should > be > > ignored, I think > > some sort of compromise should be explored for > > next year. > > Or to put it another way: > > I think is that talk of forcing people out of > their homes at great expense, suggestions that > people are trying to tell people who know what > circles are that they?re squares and that people > are being subjected to torturous noise abuse is > over the top and takes away from any sensible > message > > You think it?s useful commentary, apparently > > But agree, let?s agree to differ

Pk, let us agree to differ; you think residents who found the sound levels uncomfortable should be ignored, I think some sort of compromise should be explored for next year.

Well, however you wish to frame it the point has been made and it will be up to the council and organisers to address or ignore it next year.

Sorry pk, it is minor in your view. You are choosing to disregard the views of those who does not find the impact minor. Clearly you have no inclination to take any other view seriously or to find a compromise. I would add, that at a large scale event, like a music festival the majority will naturally live further away, if not in a different borough, and clearly will 'suffer' minimal impact. Those closer to hand who decide to attend obviously do not have a problem with noise levels as they have made a choice to participate. That leaves a proportion of residents living near by who do find the noise levels too great. It is hoped that at future events a way can be found to protect their interests too.

Pk you think it's fine, others don't. It's not as though there is a call for the event to be terminated. Instead, some are asking for the volumes to be reduced or the noise better controlled. I fail to see why this should be something you could not support. Again, it is well known that being subjected to high volumes of unwanted noise is torturous and I do not believe we should so readily dismiss the fact that some residents found the noise levels way too high.

Pk, yes I do think the views of those living close to an event should be taken into consideration at least as much as those who don't, and if a proportion living close by felt the noise was loud to the point of unbearable there should be greater efforts made to reduce it next year. Some seem to feel it was louder than last year. As for the 'over-entitled'... well pots and kettles and all that. Pk Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > first mate Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > Residents living close by have no choice in the > matter, > > unless of course you feel that in order for you > to > > have a good time they should be forced to > vacate > > their properties for the whole of the bank > holiday > > and pay up to stay somewhere else? > > > > > you really think that people who choose to live > near a park should then get to choose what goes on > in the park? > > and that people were 'forced' to vacate their > homes for the whole weekend? > > sounds like uptight, over-entitled nimbyism to me > > i know that none of the many friends and family of > mine who live nearby felt forced to leave, whether > they attended the event or not!