first mate

Graduate

NewWave Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > My partner is a key worker. > In order to get to and from work (he has been > doing 11hour plus days during this pandemic)he > brought a bike and cycles to his place of work I > really dont understand why people are being anti > cyclists as long as they dont cycle on the > pavement and wear the appropriate safety gear. > The only cyclists I dont approve of are the ones > (sometimes whole families) who insist on cycling > on the pavement or the ones who dont wear helmets > mainly because should they come a cropper they are > putting more strain on our overstretched NHS and > A&E depts. > To be honest I wish I was able to ride a bike > because its getting pretty damn boring taking my > daily exercise on foot back and forth to Dulwich > park or Peckham Rye. Completely support your partner cycling to work along with any key worker, it totally makes sense. Additionally, short cycle rides for exercise, observing social distancing. We all need to try to keep as much pressure off the NHS as possible. We can all agree on that.

KidKruger Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > paulipedia - to suggest all tarmac covered > surfaces (roads, pavement, paths connecting > different areas of park) should be for joggers > only is not reasonable. Basically you?re saying > Dulwich Park is a sports ground but if you want to > walk or go with family then must mind you don?t > get in the way of the runners as they have > priority. > Doesn?t sound like a serious suggestion, or > option. This

Not sure I understand your comment, though your name it is undoubtedly a clever play on the current debate.

That agenda may be actioned in time but for now simply mending broken and uneven paving would be extremely helpful and perhaps not as expensive and disruptive as a mass pavement widening option. Again, one really wonders why such basic maintenance has been overlooked and money spent elsewhere.

The guidelines are blurred and pretty much leave things to the good judgement of individuals. Some people will be intensely relaxed about being 2 feet from people they don?t know, for others 13 feet may not be enough. People also have varying levels of anxiety motivated by totally different things. Additionally, govt advice is generic and population density is very different in the countryside to that of city living. I guess we?ll have a better idea of how we are doing in around two weeks time. The key thing is that the NHS does not become overwhelmed. Let us hope and pray the numbers start to come down and we can start to return to greater freedoms all round, sooner rather than later. I don?t think there in any deliberate shaming or idle keyboard warrior activity going down and if there is I don?t think it applies in just one direction- I very much doubt views expressed on this forum have led directly to assaults on cyclists in Regent?s Park and it is unfair to conflate that behaviour with views expressed here. I do think there are very strong differences of opinion and we just need to accept that. Those who are themselves vulnerable or living with a vulnerable relative or working for the NHS, have good reason to find the sheer volume of people out and about extremely stressful. Especially the former, where every journey out of the home may feel hazardous and the lack of control because other people do not have the same perception and so behave differently, only adds to that anxiety. I said from the start that it was absolutely right that key workers should be able to cycle or take other forms of transport- whatever helps them really. I also don?t have an issue with short cycle rides for exercise or longer ones in the early hours when the roads are clear, so long as loads of people don?t start doing it. Though well intentioned, I am not so sure about seeing this as an ideal time to encourage non- cyclists (other then key workers) to get on their bikes, only because one wonders about the logistics, but I doubt the council would support this unless it was sound.

Doctor

I had to move out into the road to avoid a youngster heading straight towards me on the pavement yesterday, as I did he smirked and started giggling to himself.

Bagpuss, it is such a shame the Healthy Streets campaign could not prioritise work on paving so it can be brought up to standard throughout ED. Many of the pavements are in a terrible and even dhangerous state and this is not acceptable for anyone with a disability or mobility issues. Work of this nature is not as politically ?sexy? as some of the other campaigns but would make a huge difference to people like you. In terms of equality and the rights of disabled people to access and use pavements you wonder how the council has managed to get away with such poor upkeep and management of vital infrastructure for so long? Why not lobby your councillor? Ex Councillor Robin (rch on here) would help you.

Good article in Guardian that concludes on just the right note. https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/apr/10/sunbathing-park-deep-moral-questions-philosophers-coronavirus-individual

On other threads some are framing this as a civil liberties issue and I think that is unhelpful and muddies the waters. This is a finite emergency situation and most people are perfectly able to take some form of vigorous exercise inside their home. Surely this small sacrifice is worth it if it saves lives? Unfortunately, rather like Boris, there are still lots of people out there who seem to think it won?t happen to them or because they feel well they cannot infect anyone else. Regrettably, no doubt, the runners and cyclists will be out in force to day - warm air and a gentle breeze favours the virus.

It is only one study but certainly confirms what I have read elsewhere.

Mako, agreed.

ED Bird Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Soylent Green, walkers are out for essentials, are > keyworkers & helping others. Joggers are only out > for themselves. It is not an essential activity. > Do you know what time NHS are in & out of work? Of > course you don't, so advice like "x time is free > for walkers" simply doesn't work, nor should > keyworkers have to work their lives around selfish > people. I just despair. We are hearing nurses and doctors on the frontline crying and literally begging people to stay in as much as they possibly can. The more we ignore this advice and do our own thing, the greater the burden we are heaping on those tasked with daily risking their lives to care for us. We are not clear about transmission risks and exact mode of transmission. A proportion of the population who are healthy, young and fit are at risk of serious illness and even if they survive they will likely suffer permanent lung damage. The problem is we cannot single them out, so we have to assume we are all equally at risk.

I?m not sure how helpful it is to infer that views that do not completely concur with your own are somehow not really valid and amount to no more than ?letting off steam?. Anyhow, so long as the majority continue to self-isolate and self-distance it is hoped we can end the current voluntary lockdown sooner rather than later.

Sally, what do you feel is the solution in terms of helping some members of society understand the importance of social distancing etc..or do you favour the herd immunity approach?

KidKruger Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > My lurcher has been on lead for two years, he > don?t like it but that?s the way it has to be. > He?s an ex-hunting dog so if he can deal with it, > so can other dogs. > Not enough reason to close the cemetery IMO. > > I?m not seeing dog walkers ignoring distancing > there just cos their dogs are sniffing each other, > quite the opposite from my daily experience there > in fact. Spot on. A great opportunity for owners to play with their dogs more at home and then outside home it is on lead exercise.

Get your councillor to address this. Very unfair.

I?d love to know what proportion of those out in parks etc yesterday feel they have or have had a mild version of covid 19. It seems as though some must know they may be infectious but don?t really care.

Mate

ebeneezergoode Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Joggers (I'm one) need to take it easy. Stick to > early morning or evening and run in the road. > Remember we are breathing out hard - pushing > droplets far beyond 2 metres. Last week I was > visually reminded of this on a frosty morning in > Dulwich park - and I've not run in the park > since. > As for the spitters - I've seen a few... that's a > war crime! Thank you! You illustrate the problem perfectly. The jury is currently out on distance required to be safe when breath is forcefully exhaled (coughing, sneezing, panting). With a light breeze to carry droplets further, who knows.

You hit the nail on the head with your last sentence. For those in densely populated areas relinquishing lengthy exercise sessions outside of the home are a sacrifice we should all try to make for now. It is quite simple really. You have not said this, but others seem to feel justification for pursuing their individual exercise agendas is supported by the fact that not so many people are out exercising. A stance I really cannot get my head round.

The roads are only lovely and quiet because most people are currently staying in for anything but essential journeys. That will not continue if more people decide to take extended exercise sessions outdoors.

Grrr, what are people doing out in their cars? You?d think and hope that key workers driving to and from work would be careful so can only assume these are non- essential journeys by irresponsible opportunists.

Sally Eva Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > And also this one on the psychological problems > caused by quarantine > https://coronavirusexplained.ukri.org/en/article/p > ub0002/?utm_source=Govdelivery&utm_medium=Email&ut > m_campaign=publichealth&utm_content=UKRI_owned Yes, again, fair enough. I think what I was referring to and I think we all know this, is the average healthy person who wants to keep their fitness up and is missing the gym or their 20 mile bike ride or regular run and feel that since the roads are currently so quiet this is a great opportunity for them to carry on as usual.If even a quarter of us start to follow suit there will be a problem. We all need to work hard, as hard as possible, to stay in and stop the NHS being overwhelmed as well as try to bring the current situation under control as soon as possible. There will obviously be exceptions but they will be the minority.