first mate

Withering sarcasm is hardly a helpful response to valid questions. There are recent instances where emergency services were not properly consulted on road closures, with severe consequences. This may be of little concern to you, but for others it is different. redpost Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > yes, if only someone would invent a little black > box that gave you directions to your destination. > Or perhaps someone could write an app? > > Someone could also write a special app for > multi-drop/visits that care workers and delivery > drivers use that optimises your route over a large > number of stops. > > And it would be a really good idea if emergency > services had a 'special' black box reflecting > recent and temporary road closures, they could > also be fitted with sirens and flashing lights to > expedite their path to an incident! > > > > first mate Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > Appreciate this was a typo but ?care? journeys > are > > rather to the point. Those with caring duties > do > > need to be able to move around and may well be > > unable to cycle or walk. I wonder what the > impact > > of these closures will have on them? > > > > It is also unclear what impact this will have > on > > emergency services. James McAsh?s extremely > vague > > answer to that question indicates this was > > possibly not addressed as it should be. > > > > What hard data do we really have on what > journeys > > are made by whom, for what reason and when, > using > > a car? One minute we are told that the traffic > > issue is the result of those driving through, > not > > residents. Now it all seems to be about > residents > > jumping into their cars for a latte just down > the > > road. It is odd how the emphasis has suddenly > > shifted.

Appreciate this was a typo but ?care? journeys are rather to the point. Those with caring duties do need to be able to move around and may well be unable to cycle or walk. I wonder what the impact of these closures will have on them? It is also unclear what impact this will have on emergency services. James McAsh?s extremely vague answer to that question indicates this was possibly not addressed as it should be. What hard data do we really have on what journeys are made by whom, for what reason and when, using a car? One minute we are told that the traffic issue is the result of those driving through, not residents. Now it all seems to be about residents jumping into their cars for a latte just down the road. It is odd how the emphasis has suddenly shifted.

In reply to the comment there is no move to ban cars... Are we sure about that? When members of certain cycling pressure groups, with it would seem enormous influence with the council, start suggesting that people who cannot cycle to work should consider moving, you do wonder how far they are prepared to go.

You are extremely lucky and privileged that you are able to now live your life car free. When did you sell yours and at what point did you make the transition to a car free life? eastdulwichhenry Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > I've just taken my first walk up Melbourne Grove > since the restrictions came in, and it's made such > a difference. Hardly any traffic, peace and quiet, > this is long overdue. I just hope the council has > the guts to face down the petrol heads and apply > more of these pinch points. I've been as guilty as > anyone of overusing the car for local journeys, > but our streets are just too clogged and polluted > and unsafe right now and frankly this is long > overdue. Thank you Southwark and London authority.

I don?t understand how anyone can fervently support the current measures and yet still own a car and continue to drive when they feel like it. It seems likely a lot of traffic is generated by school runs but we keep being told how vital it is to reduce pollution and make roads safe, especially for children and schools. What are school governors and parent groups doing to change this from inside the schools? Again, it is simply unbelievable that children are allowed to drive themselves to school, seemingly with the schools' and the parents? blessing. Does something about the school system need to change, where students attend schools many miles away from where they live? If they live close by then walking in groups is perhaps an option. Nonetheless, I do not believe that many parents will allow young children to walk or cycle in the dark, no matter how close to home, so we are back to square one for school terms outside of summer months.

James, I am sure you will agree, given you say you pushed for these measures right at the start of the covid crisis, it is shocking a modicum of proper interventions to aid social distancing have only just started to trickle through It is even more bizarre that you are not quite sure why it has taken so long? Is it possible please to find out and let us know exactly what the holdup has been? jamesmcash Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Hi all, > > Lordship Lane pavements have been widened. This is > something we pushed for right at the beginning of > the lockdown. Not sure why it took so long but > better late than never! > > The permeable filter on Melbourne Grove South is > up and running too. > > Let us know if there are other measures you think > we should consider. > > Best wishes > James

Rheller how far do you live from the schools? The fact that you chose to make some of the journeys in the car is worth thinking about. If you support the local road changes why do you still own a car? It may not be the case with you but anyone who has actively sought these road closures should not at the same time own a car and use it when it suits them.

dontbesilly is a troll.

If people would use the available low noise fireworks it would not be such an issue. Quite aside from animals,(note domesticated species, not wild) there are lots of people of all ages that do not especially enjoy loud, random bangs. It is likely that wild animals are also adversely affected.

Was it something to do with a last hurrah for the NHS? That was the only reason I could think of.

Do we think children will also start arriving in coaches to Charter?

What an incredibly biased and unbalanced feedback document, already hailing the closures as a success. Aren?t the same architects and supporters advising detractors that they must wait months before we can possibly begin to measure how successful these interventions are? How is the council getting away with such biased feedback documents? Still nada on social distancing and the R is slowly creeping up. If, as seems likely, we have another lockdown, no stats on traffic levels can possibly be used as evidence of road closure success.

I am sure you are right but the ?period of irritation? will only apply to those who were always able to do without a car. There are many, possibly more than might be thought, who do need to use a vehicle, especially under the current circumstances. For them these measures are ridiculously punitive and heavy-handed and yet the response by those pushing road closures is a shrug and suggestions along the lines that perhaps they should go and live somewhere else. Machiavellian, arrogant and paternalistic. andrewc Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > I think what the council are trying to do is to > frustrate the car user so that they use the car > less. Over time the frustration turns to > acceptance but only after a period of irritation. > This is the case now when driving into town. Most > of us have accepted that driving in to the centre > is more hassle than its worth. It took a few years > but in the end 'we' generally accept the change. > This is what is happening locally. A period of > pain and irritation which will result in more of > us driving less.

As you will be aware, I have not been impressed by Concordia so we can only hope they have upped their game. It is quite a prize they have snaffled. I had hoped SELDOC would also be moved over. Is that happening?

Yes, and then how will they mitigate effects of pollution to the schools on LL and Charter and Health Centre on EDG? What have they got in mind there? ED is now officially a car free zone?

was that SELDOC or something else?

I think we have to ask ourselves whether this is genuine accident (poor management/piecemeal) or design? What can Southwark hope to gain from this approach?

And so it will continue. Soon multiple roads in ED will ask to be blocked off. I do not understand why Cllr Livingstone and Cllr McAsh are not more intimately involved in the working detail of these interventions when they have been so hands-on, present and active in consultations and lobbying with targeted locals and pressure groups, to get road closures underway. lpool Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > My wife witnessed what was very nearly a serious > accident today at the Nelbourne Grove blockade. As > per many drivers, only sees road block last minute > so slams on brakes and throws into reverse, only > just missing adult with child on a cycle coming > out of Ashbourne Grove. I will be contacting the > council. I inspected all the current signage > yesterday and it is woefully inadequate and in > contravention to minimum requirements. > > Ashbourne Grove appears to have become a race > track with vehicles desperate to make up for lost > time. It is only a matter of time before their is > an accident and the risk of someone being injured > or worse. I?m not sure this was something > supporters of the scheme envisaged. If it carries > on like this then we may see Ashbourne Grove > residents blocking the end of the road to force > vehicles to go back the way they came.

You may be right. My understanding has been that in terms of strategy they are involved/ decision influencers with some heft, especially re wellbeing and mental health; it is also the case that some LA workers have some access to patient information. All that said, if the new Health Centre is indeed offering on site X-rays that is good news. I just feel the whole site should have been given over to hospital style services, I cannot believe there is not a need for this, especially when the GP super practice involved has premises locally as well as elsewhere in the borough.

I had thought LAs had input into CCGs and often had representation on them?

IS SELDOC, the out of hours service still there? Also not clear why hospital space was given to a GP Practice. It is not as if we are not in need of hospital services. Seems like a wasted opportunity for a prime site. This hospital used to offer x-rays, maternity services and many other things that I am sure the community would value, instead they plonk a GP Practice there - which already has premises elsewhere and which has not had the best reputation to date.

This is what our councillor posted on the subject ?not sure of details re emergency services, but as I said before these things do have to be agreed with them.? I think you will agree that is hardly conclusive. In my view, the right questions are being asked and not one of them is indicative of hysteria. northernmonkey Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > It wasn't the original poster I was commenting on > hysteria for - more that by saying 'the emergency > services have been in contact and told 'us' that > they weren't consulted', then it allows lots of > other people to become understandably very > concerned about the lack of consultation. This > concern may or may not be valid depending on a) > whether the statement is true and b) how it was > made. > > Trying to understand facts and then act on them is > not 'polarising'. Believing what an anonymous > poster says at face value when it directly > contradicts other statements on a subject and > without any further clarification is one of the > biggest issues with social media. Requesting > clarification is not an affront! > > Also - yes, James is very 'political' - but I > don't generally think that an affinity for Marxist > politics, means that he would necessarily push > through changes without the correct consultation. > We don't know though, so again it would be helpful > to have facts to ask the right questions!

Disagreement with your stance does not equal ?hysteria?. Stop polarising. The majority on here are not anti cycling and do want reductions in pollution and traffic but we want sensible, properly considered interventions, based on data that is solid and that we can trust. If emergency services have been left out of the loop that is further evidence that these latest measures are opportunistic and politically driven and do not have the best interests of residents at their core. Our Councillor seems to be a very political type indeed...enough said.

I find it worrying that the greater concern is to dissect the phrasing of a poster to try to discredit them rather than focus on a potentially very serious issue. These measures have been implemented off the back of a health crisis but it seems emergency services have not been fully briefed. That is scary and wrong. EDAus Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Your point? > > You made several unsubstantiated statements and > assumptions, I corrected them. > > What really is the point here? > > Or is the real point of all these sudden posts to > drown out alternative viewpoints, to shut down > debate and to wear down any form of objection > until the loudest voices are heard yet again.

I would have thought it was entirely reasonable to be concerned about emergency service access. If those services have not been properly involved in the process of road closures that strikes me as very odd.