first mate

More fireworks tonight. Seriously, there are going to be large numbers of domestic pets that will require medication for half the year at this rate. Heaven knows what it is doing to wildlife.

In this case the road was not clear, there was a queue of cars, all I might add patiently and politely moving behind the cyclist who, as I said, slalomed in and out of the cycle lane, effectively keeping the whole queue of other traffic behind him for some distance. The cycle lane looked wide enough without loads of sharp detritus, that I could see, and also well surfaced- perhaps this was just the section closest to Crystal Palace, where I saw the cyclist. It could be the cycle lane is not as good at the Croydon end. Anyhow, this guy was not a great advert for 'good' cycling and sailing through a red light was, I guess, to be expected. It just came over as very entitled and somewhat inconsiderate display by someone wearing a Dulwich Paragon jersey.

Blah Blah, many of us are grateful to you for taking the first steps towards saving the park from further privatisation and exploitation. A truly valuable community service. I do hope Cllrs Hamvas and Mills can find the time to advocate for the future of the park, rather than seemingly view it as a useful events space for private hire money-spinner for a cash-strapped council.

Thanks for posting. Sounds like little will change then. I am not clear from the response if this will still go to debate or not. I hope it does.

I suspect Musk and his supporters may disagree.

Over the weekend, going towards Crystal Palace from Croydon, a cyclist wearing a Dulwich Paragon Club jersey was ahead of me. He veered repeatedly in and out of the cycle lane, one moment he was in it, then not, it was almost like he was doing a slalom run. There was no signalling as he suddenly pulled out in front of cars in order to move to the other side of the road. At the traffic lights on red, he just sailed through with no change in cycling speed. He had lights but no pedal reflectors. For a club cyclist, I thought this was a surprising display of poor cycling behaviour.

The problem there is that at the time the planning application went in for the M&S, the point was made many, many times by local residents that the rear entrance (on a residential street) was not wide enough or easy enough to access. Naturally this fell on deaf ears and council planning officers allowed themselves to be persuaded by planner computer generated modelling that large delivery lorries would be able to manoeuvre through the entrance and into the delivery area. With the passage of time what has come to pass is exactly what local residents anticipated and objected to; the M&S lorries hardly ever go into the delivery area, instead they park up on LL and on the residential side street (often blocking the footpath of the side street as they unload). To add to the problem, you have cars lining up on yellow lines to go to the car wash (often with engines running) and magically the increasingly plentiful council parking wardens never, ever catch them. I gather local residents are also fedup of M&S staff taking fag breaks on the street and dumping the ciggie butts on the pavement, once they are through.

Or we just assume that they were driving without 'due care and attention'- either way, without knowing what actually happened any view is speculative and based on assumption.

Well DKHB, if, as a number of you seem to be saying, very few shoppers in cars visit LL, why would the Council feel it necessary to go out of their way to facilitate them by creating lots of new paid for parking slots. It is the Council who said they had to balance the parking needs of shoppers with those of residents. Surely they would not say or do this without it being evidenced...would they?

Why do you think Southwark Council has justified the potential introduction of paid for parking slots on LL and ED residential streets with the rationale that it has to balance the needs of residents with visiting shoppers in cars? Do you think this was a decision based on no evidence at all? Were they lying or making it up? Were they just saying this to allay shopkeeper fears about loss of trade if a CPZ is brought in?

Indeed, yes my mistake 🤣 Weren't the regs reviewed and updated in 2017? So although bicycle lights are a legal requirement, it is a technicality that few really know or care about. It certainly tallies with the suggestion that more people are cycling at night without them.

The new planting areas are slowly filling with rubbish and weeds- not a great look. As I have said before, this is now a great cut through for delivery motorbikes and e-bikes and I would not say all adhere to 20mph or stay off the newly widened pedestrian areas. Cannot imagine what it will be like if and when the massive new student accommodation off Melbourne and the licensed shop go through. Further up towards Melbourne South a widened pavement area is full of bikes of various types and so badly designed that in heavy rain it floods and most cannot be walked through.

Can I just point out how this thread started. The OP was very clear this was about lights and clothing as a combination. The clothing bit was emphasised by other posters as a means to undermine the point. A cyclist without lights and wearing dark clothing (legalities aside) will be a tad more visible if they are wearing a reflective vest. I felt it was revealing that Malumbu indicated it was sort of okay and understandable if a cyclist occasionally forgot their lights and cycled in the dark without them (it was an, we've all been there sort of comment). As I understand it, cyclists are required to have the right sort of lights, at the right height and right lumens (helmet lights do not count) and you must have red rear reflectors on your pedals. Front white reflectors are advisable but not mandatory. Cyclists are required by law to have lights on between sunrise and sunset and if not may be pulled over and fined... I wonder how often that happens?

Blah Blah, great idea- we need a leader and organiser to get this started.

I am trying to think of local examples of pavement widening where I feel my experience as a pedestrian has significantly improved and to be frank cannot think of any. I do not walk to places more than I used or less than I used to. In places where streets are closed to cars, the car traffic has been replaced by e-bike and motorcycle users intermittently whizzing along instead- as a pedestrian you still have to be traffic aware, it is just a different type of traffic. Only these vehicles may also veer on and off pavements at times. On wider pavements there is a much greater chance of what used to be pedestrian only space being taken up by discarded hire bikes or young ones scooting/ cycling with their parents.

No, because the risks are not the same, until and unless pedestrians start to walking or running along roads at night, and some do, in which case wearing reflective vests or similar might be seen as a very sensible and good idea. I think your reference to colours of clothing is a bit spurious, though darker colours will be harder to see. I think though it is pretty easy to wear a reflective vest (easy to roll up and carry). As for lights, depends on the lights, their positioning and also whether constant or flashing. Drivers also have blind spots, and with the best will in the world might be caught out by a cyclist also travelling without due care and attention. Some cyclists, like drivers, do take silly risks. Of course drivers should take care but as road users it makes sense for cyclists to do what they can to ensure their own safety. Lights are mandatory; a reflective vest is not a big ask, especially if the cyclist is otherwise dressed in black. I think Angelina made some fair and valid points and find the seeming drive to undermine those points a bit weird.

But, for the most part, it is a fact that pedestrians largely do not share footpaths with cars (though they are having to more frequently with cyclists). It is cyclists that share road space with cars (there are not that many cycle lanes and anyway, many cyclists are not obliged to stay in them and do not) and are therefore at greater risk. I think your argument of equivalence between pedestrians and cyclists is false and not helpful. Also, not all roads are well lit- anyone that cycles at night knows that.

But, is there a requirement for speed walking? Surely, slower mooching is okay, in parts. Also, you just know that if the pavements are widened, the greater the temptation for cyclists and scooters to use that to get round traffic on the roads, or to ahem 'park' hire bikes, meaning pedestrians gain very little.

But, are there advisories out for pedestrians to wear helmets and reflective gear at night, unless they are night walking along roads without footpaths, in which case it probably makes sense for them to do so. If not, is that because for the most part pedestrians are on pavements and cars on roads, limiting contact between the two, in the city at any rate. On the other hand, cyclists, if using roads (as they mostly should) are closer to other vehicles and therefore at greater risk, especially, if as some do, they take risks and weave in and out of moving traffic. I think wearing reflective gear and probably a helmet ( though I know that is contentious) is a good thing and to be encouraged, not mocked or undermined.

Angelina, I think you have identified a genuine issue and I have noted similar. If cycling, in its various forms, continues to grow then I think safety education will have to somehow be addressed.

But, if that is the only survey available then not unreasonable to quote, surely? I hope Rockets links to it so anyone so minded can read the information and figures for themselves. I am trying to make sense of the Council's recently stated CPZ plans to provide short-term paid for parking bays on residential streets and along LL to facilitate shoppers in cars, thus impeding bus/traffic flow, against Earl's apparent assertion that not many shoppers visit the area in cars.

But, as I said, neither you, Malumbu, Snowy or March commented when I expressed reservations about how the council said it wanted to allay potential LL trader fears about loss of business re a new CPZ, by creating paid for parking along LL. Given now the great enthusiasm from you all to remove LL parking and widen pavements, I do find your silence on the above, earlier in the year, odd.

But then what of the Council's stated plan to balance the needs of residents parking with that of shoppers in cars, stating it would create paid for parking spaces on LL to effect this? At the time, earlier in the summer I said this would affect buses and those of you in favour of the CPZ etc were completely silent on the matter. I am afraid all this does look like a considered tactical approach- get CPZ in and tell people what they want to hear, then a few months later launch the idea of pavement widening and removing parking on the high street.

The other consideration is that users of Lime bikes and similar, plus younger pedal cyclists, probably don't view themselves as 'cyclists' as such and so don't get kitted out or even consider that they need to. I also agree that earlier nights are another factor for the casual or hire bike user more used to cycling in the summer. I don't think I have ever seen a hire bike or scooter user wearing a helmet or reflective gear- presumably that is because the bike is just viewed as a transport tool for short term use and users do not want to be encumbered by any of the safety gear? Before anyone jumps on me for anecdotal evidence and speculation, this is just what I have seen round here, there may be hordes of similar users elsewhere that are kitted out.

But in the very recent ED CPZ consultation The Council made a point that it felt it necessary to balance the needs of residents against those of shoppers in cars and so planned on creating new paid for parking spaces on residential streets off LL as well as on the Lane itself. Why would it make such a central point if only serving a small number of shoppers?