first mate

That is true, just so long as the process that got the result is democratic and transparent. In this case, and most particularly in regard to imposition of a borough- wide CPZ, I do not believe the process has been democratic. The CPZ was not mentioned in the manifesto.

Other roads that are also residential. How can that possibly be viewed as fair?

So very sensitive all of a sudden about derailing. As I said, pots and kettles. I have not really deviated from the subject of dangerous drivers and have commented on driving that I think is inexcusable; including those who do not stick to 20mph. However, car drivers are not the only road users that show inconsiderate behaviour and to mention that is not completely irrelevant. Of course, I would not dream of describing the content of this thread as "whinging" about car drivers, because I appreciate this is all about different perspectives and experiences.

Ah, pots and kettles. I dislike dangerous car drivers as much as you do Chick, only I also dislike cyclists that flout the law for their own convenience and risk the safety of others.

Marvellous for some, really bad for others. Not equitable and ceratinly not democratic.

Actually the pots and kettles remark was in regard to your comments about others derailing threads. I am sure you never run red lights while riding a bike, you actually do not strike me as the type. Unfortunately many, many others do. I have a theory that some cyclists are 'born again' former petrol heads, who love speed. Having to stop at traffic lights is a faff and annoying for them.

Just watched that link, perpetuating the myth that the council election result of 2022 was a resounding vote in favour of Southwark Labour LTN policy; that would be the one that was not mentioned once in the manifesto.

Snollygoster. Hmm, reminds me of a certain local Councillor who completely abandoned his promises about implementation of CPZ. Clue, used to call himself marxist now changed to socialist.

Plenty of debate around LTNs in the media today, whatever one thinks of 'Fishy's' motivation for deciding to look at it, no bad thing to try to get better scrutiny. It may have more of an impact on Southwark's goal of a borough-wide CPZ too. Only way to try to get a proper debate via a properly democratic process is to sign up https://opposethecpz.org/2023/07/27/southwark-wide-petition/

Thanks for the reminder. At the very least, a proper debate is required.

Nope, never had a prosecution or FPN.

Where there is a will there is a way. I did not say this is already happening but CEO's might be given the power to issue fines via another instrument. We have fewer police but you can bet your bottom dollar we will soon have more CEO's.

The punishment for riding a bike on the pavement is an immediate £30 fixed penalty notice fine. This is charged under Schedule 3 and Section 51 of the Road Traffic Offenders Act 1988. Typically speaking, only a very small percentage of cyclists in the UK receive a fine for cycling on the pavement. When they observe a cyclist violating the law, the majority of police officers will inform them verbally that they are infringing the law and should stop using the pavement. Repeat offenders or those who endanger pedestrians or others may, however, be prosecuted. Yet, cyclists appear to frequently jump red lights with over 4,000 cyclists being issued Fixed Penalty Notices after being caught jumping red lights or ignoring other road signs in 2013.[3]The Institute of Advanced Motorists have also revealed in their research that 57% of cyclists admit to running red lights[4] whilst a YouGov poll revealed that 35% of cyclists at least “occassionally” ignore red lights[5]. But if it is illegal for a cyclist to jump a red light, as it is for any other road user, why do so many cyclists think that it is acceptable and frequently do it?

Well yes, so let's have some enforcement please, instead of objecting to any sort of policing of cycling behaviour. As I have said before, the inevitable upturn in CEO's necessary to 'police' CPZ infractions are well placed to 'police' cycling too. You are welcome to suggest that, when you lobby your MP.

But they do, and in increasing numbers.

Pots and kettles Mr C. Do you disagree with me? Should cars and scooters, e-bikes and cyclists all be allowed to go through red lights whenever they choose?

The "latest evolution" does not by default supersede what has gone before.

Absolutely anyone that goes through a red light with any type of vehicle should be reported.

Rockets, what an insightful article. I especially noted the bit below. Amsterdam is held up as the cycling model to move towards. It is hoped their mistakes are at least noted and learned from. It is already patently obvious that some cycling behaviour on pavements in ED, including hire cycle dumping, is deeply alienating and stressful for some sections of society and not at all in line with Southwark's Equal streets policy and proclamations. "group of students from Hong Kong studying public policy at the University of Amsterdam’s summer school this summer found that people with disabilities experience these areas as stressful and dangerous, and go out of their way to avoid them. The people they interviewed said that drivers and cyclists do not slow down or take other road users into account, exploiting their relative speed and the lack of formal traffic regulations to ignore more vulnerable pedestrians."

I think we all knew what Spartacus meant. Owned scooters or bikes are unlikely to be dumped around the place willy nilly, in the same way as share or hire scooters and bikes. The behaviour can hardly be said to be 'good' for the environment and it seems that is why they have now been banned in Paris. As is often the case, other cities that have endured these schemes for longer may follow suit. This thread is meant to be discussion about LTNs.

What a coincidence, rather like the unintelligible YouTube upload of the recent Council Assembly, where Cllr McAsh did his 'reverse ferret' on CPZ. This is the democratic process in Southwark.

It will be interesting to see what happens this winter. It felt like there was a big downturn in cycling last year, once the weather turned. On the plus side, perhaps there will be fewer Lime bikes just lying around.

When it gets to winter keep an eye out for running engines to keep those inside warm. I've seen it before.

Thanks Admin, good call.

It is ironic that parents of children whose lungs we are meant to be saving are sometimes the worst offenders. I also wonder how many will also fly off for their holidays this summer.