first mate

Xlena, My commiserations to your friend and all the others who have had pets harmed in this way. I should add that other dogs have also been on the receiving end of such attacks. I do understand your anger and your desire to come up with a solution but must echo the views of others here in suggesting that your route will simply penalise the vast majority of responsible dog owners; those who behave irresponsibly will continue to do so. We know this is true because it is already illegal to walk a dog offlead on the street- it is a certain type that struts around with a dog offlead and they will not change by extending dog control orders- they are already breaking the law. Given the above and that it is already illegal to walk a dog offlead on the public highways etc.. I am not quite sure what extending dog control orders will achieve. I should add that it is already a civil offence under the Dog Act of 1871 if a dog is dangerous to people or to animals and is deemed out of proper control, that is off lead, wherever the offence happens. The dog can be subject to a destruction order and the owner may have to pay costs. Perhaps your organisation should look at taking legal action against the person in question. Though a civil matter the police were informed and you have the vet's report as evidence. The profile derived from a successful case plus a hefty financial penalty to said owner would, in my view, be appropriate justice and much more of a deterrent.

curlykaren, I was sufficiently startled by the vitriol that came my way, for no good reason I may add, that I spoke to the relevant authorities about it. I was taken aback that a group of girls should be so rude and overbearing and saddened that en masse they seemed to have a real hatred of dogs. I think it is doubtful that the whole lot of them have been attacked by dogs so can only conclude that they have learned the dislike. I too see more and more children who run and scream at the mere sight of a dog, not only in the park but in the street, where the dog is clearly on a lead- I note that the accompanying adult often seems to share the child's dislike.

I was ordered by some Harris girls to leave the park once, on the basis that they did not like any dogs. If my dog had been kicked by one of these youngsters I would have taken the matter to the school and the parks authorities pronto.

earlsam, please could your inspection address the problem of litter in general, including but not limited to: gum, broken glass, chicken bones and other food waste, and dog poo.

ian_b Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > dog poo > dog poo > dog poo > > its everywhere. you'll see plenty on your > walkabout, on the paths and all over the rye if > you go there too. owners with no social > conscience. they're supposed to bag it, right? so > many dont bother. BAD FORM. Agree that because of the few who don't bag it is a problem, but you imply that there are many that don't- what is your evidence? Remember dogs go at least twice a day, it would only take one or two offenders to create a significant amount of dog poo in the area. As I keep saying, those who show selfish beahviour in this area are as likely to show it in others, I have a big problem about broken glass, gum and chicken bones that seem to be everywhere too.

stillthinking108 Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > I agree with what too few people have said on > here, that the article is entirely true. I moved > to the area only 4 or 5 months ago, just up from > Nunhead Green, by the cememtery. Nunhead seems to > be full of Irish and African people. Peckham Rye > is a great mix of cultures, my personal favorite > is the 'Irish-Jamaican Butchers'. But the first > time I walked into Dulwich, I saw less and less > Irish people, less and less African or Jamaican > people, and more and more middle class white mums > who seemed to be engaged in some kind of maternal > arms race, its as though the fetish of oversized > 4x4s has now spilled over into the world of > pushchairs. Why is a place "full of" of Irish, African and Jamaican people preferable to one with "more" middle class white people. Surely if one celebrates diversity to say an area "full of" of any particular group is preferable to another is contradictory?

As a dog owner I agree that people need to take the time to properly train their dogs so that they don't go running up to people/children they don't know and jump all over them. Dog aggressive Staff types are likely to be more of a menace to other dogs than people and we all wish they were not in the hands of the irresponsible owners that make them the way they are. Unfortunately there are those who dislike all dogs and who would like to see dogs banned from parks or kept on a lead at all times. The problem with this is that the majority of law abiding council tax payers, with harmless, well trained pets will be heavily penalised and those who don't give a darn will continue to exercise their dogs off lead and probably get away with it too. The same minority that let their dogs defecate everywhere and don't pick up and let their dogs wander the streets offlead. I would hazard a guess that such types also disregard speed limits, litter the streets with broken glass, chicken bones and gum and generally care little for the wellbeing of the community.

Catalyst, I tend to agree with you. Rather the same as drivers who habitually speed despite penalties and fines. In the case of Dog Control Orders it is the majority of law abiding dog owners that are punished. The "foulers" will just carry on oblivious.

cate, sorry I can't help. I have not seen the dog in question myself. The original poster, doglover, describes it as looking like a small, grey dingo. I have not seen a dog that fits the description but wanted to get the post back on the main forum area because forewarned...and all that. Sorry to hear about your dog.

Yesterday Doglover posted the following. It was lounged but I am posting it in the main section again because it is useful info for dog owners. Beware of a greyish dog that looks a bit like a small dingo and is wearing a harness. It attacked my dog this morning in PRP. I had seen it earlier worrying another dog in the flower gardens at the entrance, then it ran off - no sign of its owner. When I saw it again, it was over the far side of the lower end of the park with a woman and another dog. I could see it watching my dog so we turned to walk in the opposite direction. But it galloped over, knocked my 16-year-old dog off her feet and then carried on worrying her until I managed to grab her to calm her down. The owner was a good 50 metres away and did nothing to intervene, but did hold on to the dog as we walked away. Still, I saw it again running around on its own near the Sexby Garden. The owner is clearly unable to control it or can't be bothered. So do take care of your four-legged friends. I wouldn't want your dog to go through want mine did.

Beware of a greyish dog that looks a bit like a small dingo and is wearing a harness. It attacked my dog this morning in PRP. I had seen it earlier worrying another dog in the flower gardens at the entrance, then it ran off - no sign of its owner. When I saw it again, it was over the far side of the lower end of the park with a woman and another dog. I could see it watching my dog so we turned to walk in the opposite direction. But it galloped over, knocked my 16-year-old dog off her feet and then carried on worrying her until I managed to grab her to calm her down. The owner was a good 50 metres away and did nothing to intervene, but did hold on to the dog as we walked away. Still, I saw it again running around on its own near the Sexby Garden. The owner is clearly unable to control it or can't be bothered. So do take care of your four-legged friends. I wouldn't want your dog to go through want mine did. This was posted by Doglover yesterday. It got lounged. I'm posting it in the main section again because it will be useful for dog owners to take note if they have not done so already.

DogLover Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Beware of a greyish dog that looks a bit like a > small dingo and is wearing a harness. It attacked > my dog this morning in PRP. > > I had seen it earlier worrying another dog in the > flower gardens at the entrance, then it ran off - > no sign of its owner. When I saw it again, it was > over the far side of the lower end of the park > with a woman and another dog. I could see it > watching my dog so we turned to walk in the > opposite direction. But it galloped over, knocked > my 16-year-old dog off her feet and then carried > on worrying her until I managed to grab her to > calm her down. > > The owner was a good 50 metres away and did > nothing to intervene, but did hold on to the dog > as we walked away. Still, I saw it again running > around on its own near the Sexby Garden. The > owner is clearly unable to control it or can't be > bothered. > > So do take care of your four-legged friends. I > wouldn't want your dog to go through want mine > did.

Scott, That is awful. Unfortunately the staff owner may use the excuse that the pug owners got bitten because they unwisely intervened in a dog fight. It's another golden rule that you don't intervene in a dog fight because there is every chance you will get bitten. However, if it was my dog I am sure I would, particularly with a bull breed/ "staff" type, for the simple reason that we all know they are being bred and trained for dog fighting and a minority of idiot owners encourage this behaviour. Some weirdos just get a buzz out of seeing their dog attack other dogs. Some simply don't know enough about the pitfalls of these dog types and get a staff type without doing their homework. Unfortunately, quite a number of "staff" owners fall into the trap of thinking that because the breed is generally good with children and humans, it will be the same with other dogs- not so. Also many so-called staffs are not purebred and have pitbull or other less reliable breeds mixed in. Finally, so many people won't neuter their male "staffs". There is always a price to pay for keeping an entire male, it is a fact of nature that they will be more dog aggressive (other entire males that is) and more likely to fight. So aside from all the other breed characteristics vis av vis other dogs, keeping the males intact is really loading the dice in the wrong direction. I do hope the owner of the dangerous dog is suitably punished and that the owners of the pug are okay too. A painful and traumatic experience.

Sandperson, as a kid it was instilled in me from a very early age to avoid dogs you don't know and to never touch a dog until you have asked its owner if you can, and if it is safe to so. You are right not to let your toddler approach dogs on his/her own.

I feel threatened by bull breeds if I don't know the dog and, more importantly, I don't know the owner. But that is because I am a dog owner myself and my greatest concern would be for the safety of my dog. I would have no concerns for my own safety. In the wrong hands any dog can be a menace but some breeds have much more power than others. Staffs, if they are purebred, and have not been beaten and kicked into becoming aggressive towards humans by their human owners, are amongst the most reliable breeds with people. With other dogs, however, they can be highly aggressive, any responsible staff owner knows they have to be much more vigilant around other dogs. Many will be okay, but with some the job they were bred for, fighting and bull baiting, can come to the fore with disastrous consequences because they are so powerful. Few dogs, like people, are born psychotic- a few are made that way by being abused or by very bad breeding. But, as I have already indicated, that is not a breed specific trait. People and children who treat dogs sensibly and with a degree of respect, are unlikely to ever come to harm from the average pooch.

PR, Yes, I agree. It's probably worth reminding ourselves that anyone can be dodgy in this area too, not just older men. The most recent child abuse allegations to hit the press concerned two women working in child care.

PR, I'm with you on this. You don't have to be a parent to understand the power of the bond with a child. The human imagination allows us enough insight to understand things beyond our direct experience. The notion that non child bearing adults "just don't understand" is somewhat patronising and narrow minded, it is also rather undermining of those who adopt.

All park users dislike rubbish. Dog turds should be picked up by the owners, just as drinking straws, crisp packets etc should be picked up after consumption of food/drink- I've seen a proliferation of these recently. There is also a problem with broken glass. I've had to report this to park wardens three times now. Twice loads of broken glass has appeared near the dog free area under discussion. The glass was scattered around in the grass and could have caused damage to a child or a dog. There are also a number of deep holes in the same area into which tins have been sunken (not sure why but they are like holes you'd get on a golf course)any dog running at full pelt could catch its paw and end up with a broken leg.

Thanks all, will appeal and let you know how I fare. Your advice is appreciated.

Would appreciate the input of forumites. Today I attempted to park using a pay and display machine in Lambeth. The machine golloped up my change but gave nothing back. Reported machine as faulty and moved on to find another street and another place to park, carefully clutching the last of my change. By now I am pushed for time and trying hard to find somewhere else to park. New street and two machines opposite each other on either side of road, both equi-distant to my car. I parked up and noticed a woman at the machine over the road from me. I decided to use that machine because I could check if it was working properly (I could not afford to lose my remaining change in another machine). Woman said machine was working and I duly bought ticket and displayed it in my car. An hour or so later I returned to my car to find an attendant issuing me with a ticket- despite the fact that my ticket is clearly displayed and with 15 minutes to spare. After some time I finally discover that one side of the road is Lambeth and the other Wandsworth- though there is no signage to explain that tickets will only be legal on one side of the road. Help! Is it worth disputing this? I feel I paid fairly for a space and have been caught on a technicality. The parking attendant did not issue me with the ticket but went scuttling away with it- I suppose it'll be in the post as I write. What hurts is that I'd already lost a fair amount of change in one wretched machine and really feel there was no way of knowing the two machines were for different zones; they were almost diametrically opposite each other. Any suggestions gratefully received.

There cannot be many people who own a Husky that gets walked by a professional dog walker, so if the owner is on this forum they'll probably know who the woman is.

Well , it all looks lovely inside but where do all the kids go at break. Is there much in the way of outside space? Is there a gym? can't see where the space is for them to go out at breaks etc.. Or, is the idea that they all tip into the park opposite?

Skips, skips everywhere. Ditto loft conversions and other extensions. Massive inconvenience for others who have to negotiate huge pallets of sand and other sundry building materials left around on road and pavement, not to mention building dust that regularly smothers one's home, car and bronchial tracts. I won't even get into the light-stealing, aesthetic-smack-in-the-eye impositions of loft conversions. I don't know what this skip is for but spare a thought for neighbours who have to endure your building work.

Cate, Now I think about it the old Grace and Favour, when it sold food, was simply the best. It was a quirky but really restful space with great homemade cakes and grub....that is until it became the free ED creche.

The thing is, the times of day I am most likely to drive the roads are clearer, thus moving along at 20mph will almost certainly slow my journey. The evidence points to something other than speed being at the root of accidents. I'd bet that a lot of it is to do with mobile phone use and other technological distractions, possibly used by young pedestrians and drivers who are not "aware" (in your argument I think you refer to the lives of young people being saved). I also remember an advertising campaign, around this very issue, a year or so ago. Is there not an element of personal responsibility in all of this? In other words where is the line between legislation that reduces risk to as near zero as possible and we, as citizens, being responsible for the judgements we make? If you ask me is the right to drive at 30mph worth more than the lives of a 100 people, then of course I will say no. It's just that this type of legislation begins to feel a bit nanny state-like. H and Sean, I would add that I'm fairly swayed by your arguments but this other aspect is niggling. I suspect it may be part of PR's concern too.