first mate

Oh, alright, you spotted a tautology. Well done you. Gold star.

Think Rose is pretty savvy and when people really cannot afford things in her shop she'll cut her cloth accordingly. She's only doing what most independent shops do, catering for an existing market: supply and demand. It's not her job to be a charity. She was the second decent place to open on Northcross Road, way back in the 90's -I was her first customer- and has helped to make ED a more interesting place. Many of the other nick nack shops merely followed in her wake. Of all of them she has, in my view, been the most original because she was the first. Just pray that the credit crunch doesn't wipe people like her out, because any vaccuum is bound to be filled by the outfits that can afford it, the chains. I don't want to live on another homogenised high street, or one filled with pound stores. Finally, though I'm sure she can take it, it must be tough to read such unfettered criticism over what sounded like quite a small incident.

Another is perspective instead of prospective. Is that her perspective partner? Depends on your point of view.

What about getting lyrics wrong? For years I thought a line in Elton John's "Benny and the Jets" went: "She's got electric boobs a Mohawk's suit, you know I read it is a magazine oh,oh,....., Benny and the Jets". The mind boggled. Other teeth crunchers are the classic estate agent's line "comprises of" and "personally I..".

I recall a receptionist at Melbourne Grove saying that the diagnosis by phone etc.. was part of a pilot. Now I wonder if we could find out who is monitoring the pilot and perhaps urge them to read this or forward them the link?!

Yes, I also said no and now feel really bad about it. Does anyone have contacts for her?

Noticed that Curry Cabin passes on the hygiene front and Tandoori Nights doesn't. For what it's worth, I 've just had a prawn korma, tarka dall with rice and pappadums from the former and it was absolutely revolting; the worst meal I've had in ages. The pappadums tasted rancid and the main dishes almost defy description: cardboardy korma out of a packet in a disturbing shade of coral, and lumpy, bland dall, like something soggy from the back of a hamster's nest. It was cheap but just hope I'm in one piece tomorrow. Will not be going back. TN, on the other hand, expensive but always tastes -of real spices- and looks freshly cooked.

Cate, As I understand it, Concordia Health is a private company that has taken over Melbourne Grove. I believe that Fradd is the Chairman, so guess he is on the board of the company? Sorry, don't have more detail, others here may be able to fill in the blanks. I too desperately hope the news about Dr. Brew-Graves is nothing more than a rumour, but my sources are pretty certain it is true. Perhaps we could find out where she is going and defect en masse? Or if someone from Concordia reads these posts and sees how much we the clients value her, they may reconsider and make it worth her while to stay on!

Cate, Yes, I've heard it's Dr Brew-Graves and the rumour is that the team there had to be pruned and she is the one to go. Perhaps she's glad to get out of there but what a terrible loss to the surgery. As I said, the best Doctor by far and many, many people would second that I'm sure. The real motivation for diagnosis by phone becomes clear. Money, money , money ......for Concordia's poches! Not patient care (would love to see a list of the shareholders).

I have been with Melbourne Grove for many years and it went through a dodgy period under the previous Doc in charge, then the new bunch came in and everything got very much better only to slip again when Concordia came into the equation. To make matters worse I have heard rumours that the best Doctor there, that is the one who makes time for her patients and has bedside manner in spades, is leaving (forced out because one of team had to leave, presumably cost cutting again) . I get the impression that efforts to "modernise" and save money are getting in the way. Having to input notes etc into the computer takes ages. What was wrong with the old paper method? Faster, cheaper, and of course, much more confidential since only the immediate surgery staff had access to the notes. Now presumbaly any old Tom, Dick and Harry around Southwark and loosely tied to Health Care, can get into the notes not to mention various government agencies and so on. Just feels like another example of technology creating more problems than it solves.

I also second Bellenden Belle on the kids/bedlam issue. Of all places, a park cafe is where you want and expect to see mums and children. You want those toddlers to grow up enjoying and respecting the park and what better way to get the good associations in early. I would only make a plea for an awning so that those of us who have to be outside can enjoy our coffee when the weather is not so balmy or sunny.

jrussel, Not sure public funds should be used to clear up broken glass, cigarette butts, used chicken bones, chewing gum (gosh the list is endless) users have not cleared up on their own initiative. You seem fixated on the dog issue in particular. What is your solution?

jrussel, interesting name. Do you own one perchance, or is it meant to be ironic? Think that chastising people for picking up after their dogs with the "wrong" bag is a bit provocative when you have just posted about the amount of dog mess around. I do agree that not picking up is absolutely unforgivable but think that most ED dog owners do the right thing. All it takes though is one offender to create a lot of mess, given that they go at least three times a day. In fact I know of one bad 'un who lives close to me whose son (I think) exercises their large dog on the pavement, off lead, whilst they cycle along beside it. Said dog deposits turds on street fairly regularly. Unfortunately son is off out of sight before issue can be taken, but I am waiting for opportunity to have a word. I believe that no dog, however well behaved, should be off lead on the pavement and feel this is symptomatic of a laissez faire attitude that may include the laissez poop factor too. I apologise to any dog owners who feel unfairly criticized by this observation. On another and equally environmentally unhelpful/potentially dangerous subject: what's with all the broken glass everywhere?

lozzyloz, I second that. Have to make a little room for human error and all that, especially with a new, independent, outfit. Rather have that than the hi-tech, factory-like, efficiency of the big chains. If we are not careful we'll end up being served by robots.

Moos, I think my conclusions were probably correct, doesn't make me critical or judgemental. Some may feel those conclusions to be reasonable Do you think the children should have been left to their own devices? I did say that screaming etc.. is perfectly understandable and will happen, however, it is only right that there is some kind of suitable and immediate, parental intervention, in the manner expressed by many on this thread. In a number instances I refer to there was no intervention, the parents seemed oblivious.

spadetownboy, you messin' with me boy? Hundred pressups, round the back now, by the leeeeeft, quieeek march!

alib, I didn't infer or even state that my needs were more valid than a child's, so please don't automatically paint me as anti child, I am not. I simply wanted to know what would motivate parents to take their kids out to the pub of an evening. I agree that if children don't get the opportunity to go to various places then they never learn about appropriate behaviour, boundaries etc.. I'm also sure it's good for them simply to discover new environments and so on. I like to see families out enjoying themselves, most normal people do. The odd tantrum or screaming is bound to happen and, in my view, is acceptable so long as the parent/s intervene and parent. However, I have witnessed a number of instances where the children were tearing and screaming around virtually unsupervised. I can only conclude that they hadn't had enough play prior to the pub, or they were over stimulated/over tired. I just felt that those children were not in the right place at the right time for them. I don't think it's really an issue in pub gardens, it's when it's inside that it can be a problem. Of course parents need a break too and I wholly support their right to go out and have a drink etc.. without feeling unwelcome/judged. Lozzy loz, think you make some good points but not sure about conflating toddlers going to pubs in the evening with rising teenage knife crime. I think that is a totally different and complex issue, although learning respect for others, self control, boundaries, may be part of the problem.

Can anyone explain why pubs in the evening are a good place to take toddlers? What do they get out of it, especially on lovely sunny evenings? Wouldn't they be better off in the garden or in the park or playing at home?

BN, Agree with you that if you have a specific and clear cut acute illness then the phone approach can work, after all we have NHS direct as an example of consultation by phone. Also, guess we would all feel quite happy to discuss pretty much anything to do with our children over the phone, somehow it doesn't feel intrusive or threatening in the same way. They might consider offering phone consultations for those who feel they can work with that system, but ultimately let the patient decide whether they need to see a doctor or not. I don't think that there are many who want to waste the doctor's time with petty stuff...though there will always be a few. Perhaps they need to think this this new system through a bit more. Wonder if anyone from the surgery reads this?

Cassius, Glad you've got your appointment, but glad you also emphasised the point about confidentiality re intimate problems etc.. What are you supposed to say over the phone if you've got say: erectile dysfunction; bowel problems; post natal depression; bad skin......?! The list goes on and on. Even if you can find a quiet space to have the phone call it still doesn't feel comfortable or right to have to discuss very private matters in this way. In addition, when the receptionist asks, as she did me, "what's the matter with you", one is inclined to say that's between me and the doc, or words to that effect. A receptionist subjected to constant rebuffs, however gentle, is going to get p***** off pretty quickly, and that doesn't help either. Still say it's a truly loony system and could only have been invented by an organisation intent on saving pennies where it can.

I too have just asked for an appointment and was amazed to be asked by the recepetionist what was wrong with me and then to be told I would be telephoned later by a doctor, who would assess if I needed to be seen. I have been with Melbourne surgery for many years and have to say that this seems an absolutely loony system. If I see a doctor I wnat to see them face to face not to discuss symptoms overthe phone. Not wanting to sound paranoid but I think there is a huge confidentiality issue here. I suppose that next they'll be outsourcing consultations to call centres or doing them over Skype. The doctor /patient relationship has to invovle physical proximity, surely. Many people find it hard to discuss ailments and a valuable part of the assessment processs involves the doctor being able to look at you and to examine you. If this continues I'll be voting with my feet. The recptionist told me that this system was being "trialled" elsewhere, couldn't be more specific though, and that the sytem had proved popular and succesful. Does anyone have evidence of this?

Does anyone think that there might be a relationship between the amount of banks and other large companies using call centres in India and cc fraud? I have made it a rule not to give any details to call centres outside of the UK. It's a pain and I might be completely wrong, but a few of the last postings on this subject seem to have an Indian theme.

Chav, I put my dog's deposit bag into the first bin I can find, so long as it's not garden waste. On the whole I think people would rather that than it not get picked up, but I understand your concerns about how it's treated. However, there is no excuse for dog excrement being left by the human owner, all dog owners should simply get into the habit of carrying bags at all times. Southwark even provide special pooh bags. Moving on to the subject of litter in general; I do wish that littering humans and their progeny would stop dropping their food remains all over the pavement and in the parks, including but not limited to: chicken and pork bones, chewing gum, chocolate...oh and pills. All of these are potentially life threatening to dogs if consumed, not to mention the rats etc.. they will attract. Weil's disease, carried in rat urine, is a killer of humans.

Woodie, I think you have missed the point. I am not asking for dogs to be allowed inside the cafe. I am raising an issue about service to me as a cafe user. If you do not want to tether your dog outside it is very difficult to get the attention of staff in order to get a coffee etc.. I am advocating a compromise whereby lone dog owners could place an order outside or at the cafe door. This could be regarded as the quid pro quo for agreeing to stay outside. I have already explained that tethering a dog is not without risk. Dog theft is on the rise and yes it can happen right under your nose -see attack of woman in recent dog theft attempt on Peckham Rye. Also,I do not want my dog to be approached by a strange toddlers when he is tethered, not because he is anything but sweet natured, but because I could never guarantee his behaviour with a little creature without me there to supervise, no dog owner ever should. As I said, I have witnessed too many Mums just let their toddler wander up to a tethered dog. If anything ever happened who would get it in the neck? I'm not anti Mums or anti toddlers, but I've seen this happen. Finally, I assume that a park cafe is there to be enjoyed by all who use the park, you get a lot of dog owners who are very regular park- goers and would love a hot cuppa after a frosty walk.

luke dogwalker Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Whilst I wish the cafe folk every success, and it > is a great addition etc, I'm afraid that I won't > use it in the winter as I have dogs. I'm not going > to pay the same price for a coffee or food (thats > going to get cold real quick because I have to sit > outside) as the people inside who are sitting in > the warm(!) > I will not tie my dogs up outside, anywhere, also > I don't mind children, but their are far too many > inside for me. Which leads me on to my request. > Could we in the summer months, please have a child > free area on the grass to the right of the cafe as > if you were outside looking at it? We could sit on > the chairs without worrying about parents letting > their little ones wander over willy nilly with our > four legged friends. My dogs are very well behaved > and always accompany me to the pub etc. Have to agree with you Luke. As a fellow dog owner it's hard to be on the outside, in the freezing cold, trying to get the attention of a member of staff, just so you can order a coffee in the first place. It's even tougher when you are asked by those inside to please shut the door because they are feeling a draught! I can see that parents may well object to even well behaved dogs being inside the cafe but perhaps a little more consideration could be given to us dog owners. We are also fully paid up members of the community and probably spend more time in the park, in all weathers, than others. We also pay the same price for the privilege of consuming our coffee and food outside. Like Luke I won't leave my dog tethered outside because dog theft is a serious concern and too many mothers will let their toddlers just wander up to any dog tied up outside, assuming that it must be 100% safe. Obviously no dog can ever be trusted with kiddies, especially those it does not know. If the child gets snapped at the dog is branded vicious. So, as well as a dog friendly summer space, might cafe staff also perhaps come to the cafe door, or even outside, to serve us dog owners? How about some patio warmers too?