first mate

p-in-ed, Thanks for the reasonable tone of your reply. I think the poo and the walkers are two separate things and here's why why. The non scoop poopers are a tiny group who are not going to change, not without a really serious punishment and that would be difficult to enforce. First you have to catch 'em and these anti social types tend to walk their dogs at anti social hours or off lead everywhere. But, we'd all like to see the back of them. The walkers, a bit like me, are worried about dog control orders because for the minority that actively loathe all dogs and would like to see them banned everywhere, applying control orders sets a precedent that could go on to be applied on Peckham Rye etc.. I would like to see a voluntary code of conduct whereby dog owners keep their dogs on a short lead on the Green. Any dog needing a good gallop should be taken to the Rye. If the owner cannot do this then my feeling is they shouldn't have a dog that requires goodly amounts of exercise every day. This allows the elderly and others with lower exercise needs to potter around on the Green. In the same way I wouldn't expect to see full scale football matches and similar on the Green, it's just not of a scale for those kinds of activity- the Rye is. Of course, the really practical solution to the poo issue is that we all pick up what's there (any dog walker should always go armed with plenty of bags anyway) I heave at this idea as much as anyone but if the bag is a good one no harm can come to us. I expect to be hung, drawn and quartered for this suggestion. But it would go some way to solving the problem.

p-in-ed, I feel your pain at the poo but why do you keep assuming that removing or putting up fences is going to make any difference to the tiny amount of people that don't pick up? Rather like those who continue to wilfully speed or drink and drive, despite fines and points on licence, these people are the same. They don't care. I should just add that it only takes one or two of the same people plus dog/s, over a few days, to create the impression that every dog owner is doing it. Also what about the broken glass, haven't you noticed that too?

I believe "rasscluts" it is something akin to faeces becoming tangled in the hairs of one's nethers - bottom clots if you will. You might as well address a client/patient as "you pile of shit". In certain cultures it is a seriously abusive thing to say. If this word was used, it is, in my view, bordering on a sackable offence. At the very least the perpetrator of such vile language should be seriously disciplined. I may sound OTT but this is the thin end of the wedge and if you let this type of behaviour go, then goodness knows what we'll get next. Melbourne Grove Surgery in its current form is a disaster. I too have found the reception staff lippy with a whole lot of attitude and really quite unsuitable for the job they have been recruited to do. At the very least they need to be sent away to do intensive customer training and to learn the very basics in good manners. And I won't even touch the diagnosis by phone issue because few have anything to say in its favour. The cost-cutting "experiment" has been a complete failure.

Will losing some parking on LL increase parking issues in the side streets making it easier to introduce controlled parking and permits in future? If it's only a couple of spaces then probably no issue, just musing. Just seen this already discussed earlier. Sorry folks.

Huggers, I agree with you. A fence behind the path nearest the roundabout would make a good dog area and dogs on short leads anywhere else is fine. Also agree the fence was hideous. The new fence should be the same design as perimeter fence. The Green looks so much better without the old fence. I still maintain though that the really irresponsible people will most likely carry on. But, fingers crossed and let this be an end to it.

Some were complaining when the fence was up. To hear them you'd think the whole non dog section of the Green was knee deep in dog poo all the time, indicating that partition was not working. To be honest I don't have strong feelings either way, just so long as I am not banned from walking my dog through the Green should I choose. I imagine the childrens sports days etc.. can carry on as before. It'd be a very odd person who'd let their dog off lead to defecate and run about willy nilly amongst a bunch of kiddies and their attendant parents/ adult carers at what is clearly an organised event. Human nature is generally more accommodating. If older children are using the fenced playground to kick balls in a way that is harmful to toddlers then parents need to sort it out between them. My view is to get older children running five minutes up the road to the Rye where they have bags of space to kick away and the little extra exercise in getting there can only do them good. This is not to say that they cannot run around on the Green of course they can- as you say it's all about compromise and common sense. As others have said we've all rubbed along quite happily in days gone by why such sound and fury now?

Problem is the us and them stance does seem to be perpetuated by a few parents who want others banned from use of the Green.

ooooh, ouch!

Louisa, I'm beginning to feel a bit like that myself. I don't know how we all survived up to this point. Fractionater might want to add a huge dome to the private park, with a disinfectant dip at the entry point, just to ensure that the environs within are kept completely sterile.

p-in-ed, You are the one who is polarising the argument not me. I said that the Green is for the use of all the community, and this includes dog owners, as well as parents and children. In addition to access to the Green children have use of an exlusive area adjacent. I also said that I, and many others I'm sure, would be happy to keep a dog on a short lead in that particular space. FYI most dog owners do use the Rye. A few, like the elderly, like to take their dog on the Green. A highly inconsiderate minority walk their dogs offlead everywhere, including the streets, and also allow their dogs to poo without picking up. Those people are a pain for all of us. Even dog owners dislike stepping in dog poo. Many dog owners have children too! Your us and them stance is unhelpful. Attempts to ban dogs from Goose Green will affect the decent majority of dog owners and have no impact whatsoever on the minority of offenders. We should all try to work together to improve our locale and save the invective for the few that really deserve it.

I would be concerned about dog control orders because this would set a precedent that might involve banning dogs from other green spaces in Southwark, infringing the rights of many law abiding, responsible and tax paying dog owners. I would not be averse to a demand to keep dogs under control and on a short lead when it is a very small space like Goose Green. This would make sense all round and would make it harder for owners to miss their dog defecating. It would also help the small proportion of children that are scared of dogs. However, I would not want this applied on Peckham Rye and other, larger spaces I say again though that there is already a decent enclosed space, especially for small children, adjacent to the Green. I think it's fine for young children to kick a ball around,but older kids, or larger groups should be encouraged to use the Rye.

p-in-ed, I think we have to accept that Goose Green is not there for the sole use of parents and children but for the whole community and that includes dog owners, some of whom are elderly and cannot get as far as the Rye. There is a fenced off play area for the exclusive use of children opposite. Older children who want to play ball etc.. have only to walk five minutes up the road to Peckham Rye, where there is much more space and again, fenced off areas for children. I should add that in and around all of these spaces I notice as much broken glass as dog poo but there never seems to be any concern about that. Litter is an urban problem of which dog poo is a part. There will, alas, always be those who litter without a thought or care for others. A little bit of vigilance on the part of park and community wardens as well as a few fines may help the problem on Goose Green. I don't believe a ban on dogs would work because the kind of people who litter with broken glass, discarded food and gum, food wrappings etc, and who don't pick up, are the types who will carry on doing just what they want to do.

Moos, I think if mums appear to be trying to be discreet that makes a lot of difference. It's the -wop em out and I dare you to have a problem brigade- that cause temperatures to rise. I think most of us sense when someone is struggling but trying and, on the other hand, the person who just doesn't give a d. Asset, you are correct, she changed the nappy while seated at a table. Even so, not really necessary when facilities available, surely you would agree?

Changing a nappy on a table that others will eat on and in full view of others eating, is selfish and unsupportable and...unecessary, given nappy changing facilities were clearly marked and available. Breast feeding in public is fine but should, out of respect for others sensibilities, be done with discretion. I can't see any reason why boobs need to be on full display. It's easy enough to carry a light (or heavy, if it's cold) shawl/wrap that allows the boob to be concealed. On this basis I can see no grounds for objection to public breast feeding anywhere. I can also see no reason why the Mum's who want to breast feed in public should not ensure they always have a shawl/wrap to hand.

Honk, actually many of us have black friends and neighbours from "round here". The fact that you view ED as an exclusively white enclave suggests you need to get off your high horse and out more.

Orla and Halcion, Thanks for drawing attention to this incident. It sounds like it was an unsettling experience. Honk you come across as a self righteous p**t. You were accused of being mildly sexist on another thread, is this a cack-handed attempt to show you aren't a racist too, or do you just have problems empathising with women? Either way your "point" about skin colour seems way off beam.

No, never!

Phew! Good news.

Mick Mac, Are you aware of something called the Dangerous Dogs Act?

I would clean the cat flap and door outside with biological washing powder. This will get rid of the scent of the new cat, which may be putting your cat off, in addition to everything else. Cats are very territorial so you wnat to get rid of any association with the big black puss.

Bunny19, you probably know that dulwichmum is a spoof character. She/he has a website. Satire re Dulwich folk is her/his stock in trade. Dog snatching is a real and serious issue and your description of the person you were suspicious about is helpful. Thanks.

Round my way there have been a number of instances of what looks like human poo, as well as used baby wipes and nappies left at the side of the pavement. I also get tired of finding sweets, bits of chocolate, discarded chicken bones, as well as broken glass strewn around- in the park too, especially in the summer after picnics. I guess litter is a general problem and the dog poo is one aspect, all deeply unpleasant I agree.

cate, I think there are people out there capable of all sorts and digging a microchip out, or attempting to, is not completely beyond the realms of the imagination. Do you remember the young male who was found by police to have portions of his puppy's ears on his person? He had attempted a bit of 'home cropping' and cut off bits of his staff puppy's ears to make it look 'harder'.

What sort of dog do you own? If it looks anything like a Staffie/Pitbull or mastiff, an Akita or Husky/Malamute then chances are your fears are grounded. These are the favoured dogs of the moment. Dogs are also stolen to be used as bait for fighting dogs but would tend to be smaller breeds. I believe a young woman was accosted on the Rye some time ago and attempts made to take her dog. It would be helpful to have a description of the man.

The stuff looked really nice and will pop in for a closer look. I was, however, slightly taken aback by the price of a small side table at ?220(something like that). If it is hand carved from scratch, well okay, but if it is recycled furniture then the price seems a bit steep, especially in these credit crunch times.