first mate

But even if the whole borough is reduced to 20mph it won't stop those who routinely exceed 30mph- what precisely will be different? If they can get away with it now they will do so in future. There a are number of kids I see who race up and down roads, flying over the speed humps as they go...how will this affect them? They keep doing it so either never get caught or have bottomless pockets. I was driving in central London last night and it was a nightmare. There is a proliferation of street signs, road markings, cameras.... all utterly confusing and still drivers were speeding all over the place. As for the lunatic cyclists, all dressed in invisible black, weaving in and out of cars and their blind spots just as fast as they could. I saw one cyclist, clearly at fault, narrowly avoid getting hit.

I'm sure someone can come up with research to justify this but frankly I cannot see why further reducing the speed limit would impact on those who already drive well in excess of 30mph- surely the punishment will be exactly the same? I guess the rationale has to be that there is research to show that many people/children are being injured ot killed by cars operating within the current speed limit of 30mph.

littlelau, actually you go one step further than many dog owners in that you have said you even put your dog on a lead in the park around certain other dogs and children. So, you are a model owner in my book!

ED, Sorry, I really wasn't having a go. 'Twas my sense of humour that obviously didn't come out. What I meant was we all like fireworks (therefore we all have a fiend within..me too) and I have no problem with them being let off, even in back gardens on certain nights of the year. My point is that provided we all know what those nights are and stick to them we can all cope- its the lack of forewarning that is a problem..for me anyhow. So you letting your inner fiend out on 5th Nov is fine by me because I expect fireworks on that night. It's just about knowing in advance, that's all. Hope that makes sense.

Worrying if it is a scam, which it sounds to be. Where/how have they got the jackets? Sounds like it is large and well organised. Definitely one for the police.

e-dealer, I like to let my inner fiend out to play with fire every now and then so I think it's about moderation and consideration. I don't care what date it is, just keep it to a few dates that we all know about in advance. So, yes, you probably are a fiend...sorry :)

It is irritating when PC point scoring is brought into what should be a common sense issue. Most of us like or tolerate fireworks a few times a year, organised events are fun for family and kids and safe..... These events can be promoted so that most know when they are happening and can avoid or accept a few nights of disruption. Some pets can be driven mad with fear by fireworks and so pet owners need to prepare and if they know when the fireworks are happening this is possible. What I object to is what feels like a stream of low level fireworks harrassment that lasts from November through to the New Year with bangs often going off out of the blue in the late evening/early hours. As I have said before, these make me jump and I hear neighbours' dogs going into cycles of barking as a result. It's the back garden firework fiends that are the culprits. I don't know what research there is on it but I hate to think what effect this has on local wildlife too.

Littlelau, I would agree that nearly all pure staffs are brilliant with people. Some staffs are not so great with dogs and that goes back to the fact that they were bred to be fighting dogs, amongst other things. That is not to say that you cannot teach a puppy staff how to behave with other dogs, as yours does. As you say, it is down to the owner to put in the time, do the training and know the breed they have. If your dog is on a lead when you are out I see no reason why people should demand you muzzle him. The problem is when people have their dogs offlead- this makes life very difficult for people who dislike or are afraid of dogs, some people have been badly frightened or bitten by a dog as children and it is obvious that they are going to be more scared of a dog offlead than on a lead. The type of dog you are most likely to see offlead on the streets is a bull breed type. I saw a huge intact mastiff male the other day being walked offlead near ED station...why? It would be so easy to put a lead on. The situation in the park with the retriever may have been sparked by the other woman panicking and yelling so her own dog thought yours was a threat. It is hard for people who own a well brought up staffie. But congratulations, it sounds like you have a lovley dog.

Catzy, If you own a pet that is terrified/highly reactive to firework noise you have to prepare believe you me..Forgive me if I don't go into the detail right now, but if you think it through a little you might get there.

They sure do. The big problem is not quite knowing when they are going to go off- if you know its going to be for three nights and then that is it you can prepare, but now it goes on for weeks with no way of knowing at what time they'll begin and end. Late night ones make me jump too.

Guarding behaviour is initiated by stress- the fear/anxiety of losing a resource or of incusrsion onto territory by strangers. Dogs with in a state of high arousal put their hackles up- this indicates stress. So, as you suggest the dog for whatever reason felt under threat and reacted accordingly to warn the threat off- this is also known as guarding.

Frenchpolisher, Just to balance your point, joggers can also be very intent on doing THEIR run- often plugged into their phones and presumably in some kind of alpha state. With some joggers there seems to be an expectation that you get out of their way so they do not deviate from whatever route they have in mind- it's a matter of perspective I suppose. I do think that if owners could keep dogs on lead along walkways, enclosed gardens and around the cafe we would see a great difference, but other park users need to be more considerate too. I'm thinking about the dog that was sitting outside the cafe offlead. I completely agree that it should have been on lead and tied, but this would not have changed the fact that it did not feel comfortable being approached by children - this does not necessarily mean it is vicious or aggressive. Many children today can treat dogs and other animals like toys and view them as readily accessible for their entertainment at all times. The dog owner was also at fault though because if her dog is stressed enough by people/children approaching it to lunge and snap (the dog's way of saying you are making me nervous) the owner should not be leaving it outside on its own.

And yet truth is sometime much stranger than fiction. It's not only Tories in the frame.

73jem, I think it is entirely reasonable and I don't really understand why people don't put their dogs on a lead in these areas. I also take your point about toddlers not being restricted to just one fenced area. We must all try to be more aware and considerate of the needs of others.

Otta, Not just one top Tory...the rumour mills suggest a clutch.

There is no excuse for having dogs offlead around the cafe. For the record, there have never been dog free areas in the park= other than the fenced toddler area in the centre of the park. I had thought we were discussing dogs being kept on a short lead in sections of the park, not excluding them altogether. I visit the park a lot and the toddlers section is always dog free. I think one issue is that dog owners are probably the most consistent users of the park all year round and will be out walking the dog in all weathers, when most prefeer to stay in the warm and dry. In this sense I think that some dog owners might feel they have a claim on the whole of the park over those who are more fairweather visitors. I'm not condoning this but I think it explains why they let their dog off everywhere, because for certain periods of the year there is noone else around other than feloow dog walkers.

barriedalenick, There are ceratinly dog owners who need to take more care in monitoring their dog's behaviour instead of wiaiting until they do something obnoxious like chasing a cyclist- generally the warning signs will be there some time before the dog actually goes for it. However, just for balance, there are cyclists that treat the park like a race track and cycle at very high speed often coming from behind with no warning at all and I have had a few near misses when my dog has been on a lead! I think some cyclists are of the mind that if they can see the dog and owner then there is no problem since they can avoid no matter how fast they are going, excpet dogs and owners don't move in straight lines when in the park and cyclists should perhaps take that into account, especially when they are indulging in yellow jersey fantasies :) It does sound as though you are more sinned against than sinning though.

I'm sure that lady deliah was merely pointing out that the 'rules and regulations' referred to are actually requests and are currently not enforceable. However, many dog owners do see that it is reasonable to comply with the request to keep dogs on a lead in certain areas of the park, at the very least this enables those who do not like dogs to enjoy the freedome of the park too.

jeremy, let us know where you are and we'll come and rescue you, you are obviously being forced against your will to post on this thread. Perhaps the detractors can point to more 'worthy'threads. I note one has written about projectile vomit- perhaps time would be better spent there.

Perhaps the news that ED police station is folding/folded is emboldening burglars.

Sarah9999, Dogs need to have some time offlead, so to ask for dog control orders where dogs in dog exercise areas are always kept on a long lead is not the way to go (see Animal Welfare Act, 2006). Dogs must be allowed off lead in certain sections of the park and they do need a degree of play with other dogs. It is however incumbent on owners to learn about dogs and how they interact and to be aware that not every adult dog will delight in a new puppy boucing all over them, that some dogs like a bit of space, many intact males will be less tolerant of other males etc.. There are plenty of decent dog training classes around to learn all this stuff. However, I agree that around entrances, walkways and sections like the Japanese Garden, it is reasonable to ask dog owners to keep their dogs on a lead and I also fail to see why this is so regularly ignored by dog owners and walkers. It simply gives firepower to those like you that want dogs on a lead all the time. With reference to Tony Quinn, I had assumed that because the word attack was used that some really aggressive behavior had taken place and bites were involved. Nonetheless, even if the dog concerned was involved in some out of control play biting or inappropriate herding-type behavior it simply goes to show that a dog-friendly person's view of what constitutes real aggression/attack may be very different from the person who dislikes/fears/misunderstands dogs. Under the DDA a person only has to fear they will be attacked- perception is important. It should be a warning to us all as more and more people are asking for a tightening up on dog freedoms.

Tony Quinn, Did the dog actually make contact with you? Did it bite you? It'd be useful to know the detail of what happened and whether the owner was in sight and what they did? For a dog to actually 'attack' a person out of the blue is unusual and the owner of that dog needs to be aware how serious this is and take remedial action. Becsbex, I'm wondering how Tilly is? Please let us know.

Tony Quinn, That is serious. Can we have a description of the dog and owner and did you report it?

WOD, I'm pretty sure that many dog owners do treat fellow humans as well if not better than they do their dogs. I have little doubt that lonely and isolated people might themselves benefit from a pet and the kind of people who prefer animals over humans might themselves also be lonely and isolated without their furry companions. I think that dogs lift the spirits of many. I'm sure that you will have heard of PAT dogs, where suitable dogs are taken around care homes etc.. Dogs are also invaluable to those with a rnage of disabilities, who possibly benefit as much from their canine companions as they do human interventions. That said, I'm sorry you have had a bad day and none of us like to skid in dog poo, infuriating and disgusting.

womanofdulwich, I'm sorry but that is a bit below the belt and irrelevant. By your logic any pastime or hobby should instantly be jettisoned and the requisite spare time/money devoted to lonely/isolated people. Why should dog owners be singled out?