first mate

And yet truth is sometime much stranger than fiction. It's not only Tories in the frame.

73jem, I think it is entirely reasonable and I don't really understand why people don't put their dogs on a lead in these areas. I also take your point about toddlers not being restricted to just one fenced area. We must all try to be more aware and considerate of the needs of others.

Otta, Not just one top Tory...the rumour mills suggest a clutch.

There is no excuse for having dogs offlead around the cafe. For the record, there have never been dog free areas in the park= other than the fenced toddler area in the centre of the park. I had thought we were discussing dogs being kept on a short lead in sections of the park, not excluding them altogether. I visit the park a lot and the toddlers section is always dog free. I think one issue is that dog owners are probably the most consistent users of the park all year round and will be out walking the dog in all weathers, when most prefeer to stay in the warm and dry. In this sense I think that some dog owners might feel they have a claim on the whole of the park over those who are more fairweather visitors. I'm not condoning this but I think it explains why they let their dog off everywhere, because for certain periods of the year there is noone else around other than feloow dog walkers.

barriedalenick, There are ceratinly dog owners who need to take more care in monitoring their dog's behaviour instead of wiaiting until they do something obnoxious like chasing a cyclist- generally the warning signs will be there some time before the dog actually goes for it. However, just for balance, there are cyclists that treat the park like a race track and cycle at very high speed often coming from behind with no warning at all and I have had a few near misses when my dog has been on a lead! I think some cyclists are of the mind that if they can see the dog and owner then there is no problem since they can avoid no matter how fast they are going, excpet dogs and owners don't move in straight lines when in the park and cyclists should perhaps take that into account, especially when they are indulging in yellow jersey fantasies :) It does sound as though you are more sinned against than sinning though.

I'm sure that lady deliah was merely pointing out that the 'rules and regulations' referred to are actually requests and are currently not enforceable. However, many dog owners do see that it is reasonable to comply with the request to keep dogs on a lead in certain areas of the park, at the very least this enables those who do not like dogs to enjoy the freedome of the park too.

jeremy, let us know where you are and we'll come and rescue you, you are obviously being forced against your will to post on this thread. Perhaps the detractors can point to more 'worthy'threads. I note one has written about projectile vomit- perhaps time would be better spent there.

Perhaps the news that ED police station is folding/folded is emboldening burglars.

Sarah9999, Dogs need to have some time offlead, so to ask for dog control orders where dogs in dog exercise areas are always kept on a long lead is not the way to go (see Animal Welfare Act, 2006). Dogs must be allowed off lead in certain sections of the park and they do need a degree of play with other dogs. It is however incumbent on owners to learn about dogs and how they interact and to be aware that not every adult dog will delight in a new puppy boucing all over them, that some dogs like a bit of space, many intact males will be less tolerant of other males etc.. There are plenty of decent dog training classes around to learn all this stuff. However, I agree that around entrances, walkways and sections like the Japanese Garden, it is reasonable to ask dog owners to keep their dogs on a lead and I also fail to see why this is so regularly ignored by dog owners and walkers. It simply gives firepower to those like you that want dogs on a lead all the time. With reference to Tony Quinn, I had assumed that because the word attack was used that some really aggressive behavior had taken place and bites were involved. Nonetheless, even if the dog concerned was involved in some out of control play biting or inappropriate herding-type behavior it simply goes to show that a dog-friendly person's view of what constitutes real aggression/attack may be very different from the person who dislikes/fears/misunderstands dogs. Under the DDA a person only has to fear they will be attacked- perception is important. It should be a warning to us all as more and more people are asking for a tightening up on dog freedoms.

Tony Quinn, Did the dog actually make contact with you? Did it bite you? It'd be useful to know the detail of what happened and whether the owner was in sight and what they did? For a dog to actually 'attack' a person out of the blue is unusual and the owner of that dog needs to be aware how serious this is and take remedial action. Becsbex, I'm wondering how Tilly is? Please let us know.

Tony Quinn, That is serious. Can we have a description of the dog and owner and did you report it?

WOD, I'm pretty sure that many dog owners do treat fellow humans as well if not better than they do their dogs. I have little doubt that lonely and isolated people might themselves benefit from a pet and the kind of people who prefer animals over humans might themselves also be lonely and isolated without their furry companions. I think that dogs lift the spirits of many. I'm sure that you will have heard of PAT dogs, where suitable dogs are taken around care homes etc.. Dogs are also invaluable to those with a rnage of disabilities, who possibly benefit as much from their canine companions as they do human interventions. That said, I'm sorry you have had a bad day and none of us like to skid in dog poo, infuriating and disgusting.

womanofdulwich, I'm sorry but that is a bit below the belt and irrelevant. By your logic any pastime or hobby should instantly be jettisoned and the requisite spare time/money devoted to lonely/isolated people. Why should dog owners be singled out?

Becsbex, How is Tilly this morning? Even if she seems absolutely fine please do make sure she goes to the vet. I'd also be careful about which dogs you let her interact with- you want it all to be positive, so soon after an experience like that. She may be understandably wary of pairs of dogs or of staff type dogs for a while, or she may be fine- it depends on how sensitive she is. Watch her reactions around other dogs and if you see any slight signs of discomfort ensure she is not overwhelmed by getting space from the other dog/s. However, you don't want to worry her by worrying yourself so you need to monitor the environment without being anxious. Most dogs will bouce back from one bad experience but it would be understandable if she was a bit wary for a while. If only these rotten/irresponsible dog owners could grasp the consequences of their lack of managemant of their own dogs and the possible knock-on effect of just one bad experience on another dog. I'd just like to say that even though the dogs that attacked Tilly may look like Staffs they might easily be crossbreeds. I do think certain bullbreeds have a propensity to play very roughly and that this can easily roll over into something else. Additionally, it is possible for certain types of dog, especially if they live together, to 'pack' and gang up on another dog. The final responsibility is downn to the owner. The people who own these 'staffie-type' dogs are obviously not responsible dog owners and totally at fault. They had the ability to keep those dogs on a lead and chose not to.

Becsbex, I am so sorry to hear about Tilly and thank you for letting us all know about this incident in such a measured and responsible way. I hope you don't mind me saying but if I were you I'd get her checked over by the vet anyway. Long fur can hide puncture wounds which look innocuous if you see them at all, but can obviously cause a lot of damage as well as cause bad infections. No doubt all will be well with Tilly but it's probably better to be safe than sorry. Her leg wounds could probably do with a proper clean up too. I hope that since the dog owners whose dogs did this now know what their charges are capable of that they will keep them on lead and monitor them carefully around other dogs. It is possible that someone here will know who they are.

My that sounds rather patronising. What does the 'bless' signify?

Asset, I think if you have an overload of sensibilities, so much so that they can be grated on, then that is certainly proof that you are indeed a lady. Now pass me the smelling salts.

bemused ed Yes, that seems reasonable provided the police station site also has a car park for M&S users (there would be room).

PR great. A steady 'flow' of information would be great.

I imagine the difference between a public meeting and drop in for q&a's is that in a public meeting both questions and answers go on the public record and are there for all to see; the drop-in is probably both more discreet and keeps matters discrete in that dealings are kept between Thames and individual persons. Perhaps the latter gives Thames more control over information.

On the contrary, there is an argument that all his charitable acts were merely a hugely successful smokescreen giving him much greater access to children, adolescents and institutions. Did he feel guilt? Of course, we'll never know. A priest can't tell. If he was a sociopathic personality then he probably did not have the psychological apparatus to feel guilt. The appearance is one who revelled and even gloried in his power and now, it seems, that includes the power to manipulate to deceive and get away with it. His epitaph "It was good while it lasted"

See "Soylent Green"- 1970's sci-fi flick. New York 2022 has undergone a massive population explosion- a new source of high protein food is found. It goes on the market with a convincing cover story, and everyone loves the taste, mmmmm soylent green! Anyhow,unless the bodies were harvested from natural disasters and instant death wouldn't the flesh of most of the dying be contaminated with high grade pain killers and other medicines..?

I don't think the extent of what he was up to was an open secret. Molesting a 15 year old girl in a BBC dressing room is arguably not quite the same thing as molesting a brain damaged patient, a 9 year old cub scout, or a Broadmoor inmate. Of course I'm not saying it is okay but there is deeply dogdy and then seriously depraved. It seems likely that Savile was in the latter category and was highly adept at keeping his various worlds separate. I cannot help wondering though if his ability to keep everything under wraps for so long and to be so audacious in doing so was facilitated by friends in high places with similar interests, or was he simply a 'successful' sociopath?

There's a huge Sainsbury's on Dog Kennel Hill, a smaller Sainsbury's up Lordship Lane..... surely these satisfy most requirements?

Many owners of status dogs will say they have a pit cross because it makes them look tough. A labrador x boxer could look very like a pit, as could a lab x staff. American Bulldogs share many breed traits with the pit bull and if anything are even bigger and stronger and they are not a banned breed. The whole territory is very confused. As you say, these are very powerful, drivey breeds. Just as I would not want a learner driver careering around the inner city in a Ferrari so I don't want kids or novice owners handling/owning these dogs.