first mate

Wulfhoud said: "No, but I'd imagine "they've locked up the boy-racer tw@ts and cut the accident rate in half" will be enough for a few more kids to be allowed to walk to school on their own". You see, I just don't think that is going to happen- and believe me I would like it to. Instead I think you'll get the iveterate speeders getting even more wound up when they are stuck behind someone like me who tries very hard to maintain 20 mph. The tw@ts then tend to react by driving even more recklessly. The police don't wnat to/have no resources to police this and Southwark seem to think it'll be self enforcing. I actually think a lot of money will have to be spent on speed cameras to make this work.

James, Thanks for being clear. I hope that you will fight this as hard as you can. It is outrageous that the Southwark can so easily brush away and dismiss the valid concerns of its residents and voters.

James, obviously appreciate you getting involved and actually coming on here to answer and to help, but, please be clear, do you think the current consultation form on parking in ED is fit for purpose, yes or no? Do you think the two issues currently combined should be separated? Yes or no?| James Barber Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > I'm trying to untangle this with officers and a > helpful resident beign the guinea pig to try the > fixes being suggested. > ANother example adds weight that the problems are > sufficient that the deadline should be extended > and the form made easier and I've requested > everyone who has responded so far be alerted to > the problems and given opportunity to add more > responses.

James, do you not feel it worthy of objection on your own account? I know you are objecting to the unrestricted parking aspect but surely you must agree that the consultation form is a farce and a disgrace. Are you not able to object to this yourself? Or do you think the form is okay as is?

James, can you please lodge an objection to the design of form for the parking consultation which is misleading and may not allow for fair and accurate consultation. The issue of currently restricted parking being extended from 30 minutes to one hour should be completetly separate from the proposal to make large stretches of Lordship Lane, currently unrestricted, to restricted. Moreover the form does not allow you to comment on the whole of Lordship Lane, but, for some reason, divides it into sections, arguably diluting objections to the whole.

carolb, thanks for those really useful points- espeically about division of Lordship Lane into sections for consuktation purposes, as though shoppers and residents only ever limit themselves to one section. Please everyone, take the time to read this form and fill it in

deleted as problem solved

Here's link to form, it literally takes 1 minute to fill out https://forms.southwark.gov.uk/ShowForm.asp?fm_fid=1195 However, a word of warning. By mixing in already restricted areas with proposed changes to unrestricted it seems to me that the Council have tried to pull a fast one. If you oppose introduction of new restricted parking on L'dship Lane you need to object to the whole package and explain why. I also hope that James Barber is prepared to take the Council to task on the design of this consultation and the Council's attempts to get a result by sleight of hand. Edited 1 time(s). Last edit was today, 10:40am by first mate.

By mixing in already restricted areas with proposed changes to unrestricted it seems to me that the Council have tried to pull a fast one. If you oppose introduction of new restricted parking on L'dship Lane you need to object to the whole package and explain why. I also hope that James Barber is prepared to take the Council to task on the design of this consultation and the Council's attempts to get a result by sleight of hand.

http://www.southwark.gov.uk/info/200140/parking_projects/3654/one_hour_free_parking_in_local_shopping_parades See map, page 30 for detail of proposed changes from unrestricted free parking to restricted, under S'warks free parking scheme. Consultation us ongoing. Without objections this is due to be implemented late March, early April thus year.

Here's a link to proposals on free parking...again has consultation passed us all by http://www.southwark.gov.uk/info/200140/parking_projects/3654/one_hour_free_parking_in_local_shopping_parades

This is a link to Southwark's forward plan http://moderngov.southwark.gov.uk/mgListPlans.aspx?RPId=153&RD=0 But you can also do a bit of a search backwards by putting in key phrases like "speed limits" or "licensing". I can already see that a big meeting on licensing residences is coming up, as well as management of leisure facilities ( thinking of the poo in the pool thread, and many complaints about ED leisure). I wonder if admin could dedicate a tab to this and a few other key links? This link about how S'wark intends to consult on the S'wark plan is also of interest http://www.southwark.gov.uk/download/downloads/id/11085/consultation_plan

http://www.southwark.gov.uk/news/article/1725/response_to_reports_concerning_20mph_limit_and_cyclists A search on S'wark website indicates that that cllr barrie Hargrove announced in oct 2013 that 20 mph would go to statutory consultation. The above is a press release in June 2014 which indicates the consultation has been done, it also contains interesting information on enforcement, whereby the limit won't apply to cyclists, only motorised vehicles.....bizarre and a bit of a mess.

Hi James, appreciate the links though I'd add that looking at the second the information on key stuff is overly general and you cannot get into any if the detail as though this is signposted it us not linked to.

ED History. Thank you. Do you know if the Society have a stance on any if the issues under discussion here? Tessemo, yes and if I have my facts right some special interest groups/ activists are also local councillors- someone please correct me if I am wrong.

Hopskip, Nicely put. I think we need a consultation on the consultation process and most likely some kind of reform. It is worrying and while I do not have such a major beef about 20 mph (though feel it may prove ineffective until the council shells out huge sums on cameras- also on the cards btw)I do feel strongly about changing unrestricted parking into restricted under the guise of the council's call for "free parking". I see that Southwark Living Streets are also part if a national drive to challenge free parking and presumably thereby rid the streets of as many cars as possibly. Jeremy Leach was/is Lib Dem councillor for Newington Ward, he is also the main man for Southwark Living Streets and Southwark Cyclists.

Zebedee Tring Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Is "the Gazette" the London Gazette? An official > UK journal, in which it is required that certain > statutory notices should be published. Yes, ZT it is, though I had not felt it was something I needed to peruse on a very regular basis in order to find out about proposed major changes to my locale. Do others read this often? Perhaps I need to start.

And I meant to add that one of the special interest groups- Southwark Living streets- is a branch of the national charity Living Streets who have been driving 20mph from the start, and have worked in an advisory and partnership role with the Council to make this initiative happen, so they have had the inside track, as it were. Thus to see them mentioned as consultees in some sort of statutory box ticking exercise seems a little rich.

RB, i think you make valid observations but I think the point here is that certain special interest groups were given special notice, their attention was positively sought rather than them having to regularly monitor the Gazette and Council website just in case something relevant came up. I do feel that proposed changes to speed limits could have been given greater profile thereby enabling wider consultation.

Tessmo, Agreed, however if you look at the detail for this particular consultation you will see that local residents are listed as amongst those who would be affected by 20 mph and therefore should be consulted. I believe the council maintains it met this obligation by posting notice in the Gazette( whatever that is), putting it online on its website and in a few papers like the South London Press. I guess we have to decide if this was enough. Were special interest groups given an advantage in being directly approached by S'wark for their views? Was the process unfairly weighted? The only way to challenge this is to look at the process to see if the Council failed in some area.

As James says, consultation does not mean referendum, it seems really to be a technical part of process the Council are obliged to do when seeking to make changes they believe are for the best, but the exact meaning of which is unclear. I am also beginning to think that the process is regularly used in quite a cynical and undemocratic way.

@woodwarde, perhaps we need a clear guide to effective objection? One part of me feels that is what elected Councillors are for but doesn't seem that effective.

I don't feel so strongly about 20mph but I do feel let down by the process and also feel that there was not a clear call and space for public consultation. I am sure that playing the system to advantage is viewed as part and parcel of the political game by those within it,but to those on the receiving end it is a cause of disillusion and anger. In your view re 20 mph on all roads, was there adequate warning and information for the general public to have their say? You cite Townley Rd as an example of people protesting to make a change, but if we don't really know, how can this happen? In your view, in thus case, do you think process was adhered to?

James, okay, I take it that you support the 20 mph throughout and would not therefore be inclined to oppose it. What about changing unrestricted parking to restricted, will you oppose that? What measures can be taken now to ensure this does not happen? Do you also agree that mixing in the proposed change from 30 mins to one hour with unrestricted spaces to one hour is misleading, if so what can be done to unhitch the former from the latter?

@woowarde, Thanks. We know that 20mph is a strategic decision and in his last post on the matter James Barber suggested we email a Cabinet Member expressing objections, but the implication was that there was little he could do, though he was quick to play it for political points. I would like to know if James agrees with 20 mph on main roads in ED (I think most will agree side roads are fine)and if he feels that local residents were adequately consulted and process followed?