????

Hermits Cave Otta - (no apostrophe for the pedant of the thread)

Ahhhh for us getting older, remembering the joy of the feel a lovely thrupenny bit in your hand :)

I am just waiting for the "....doomed to repeat it" quote. I've a few likely candidates in mind.

JoeLeg Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Oh now you can just do one Mick, you know full > well what you were insinuating. > > Your OP is essentially a justification for his > actions, and a declaration that the British are > responsible for everything. If you want to have a > wider debate on Ireland then start a separate > thread, but any discussion about McGuinness in > this respect is going to include the fact that he > was a morally dubious individual, to say the > least. > > > You're not worth any more of my time. > > You're a twat. That's a totally unneccesary > comment designed purely to make you look good and > put someone else on the wrong side of an argument. > > > Transparent, and pathetic. To quote someone on here just a couple of days ago.......tee hee, you inconsistent hypocrite Joe lol

Yup, agreed - take the Scots out of Ireland and stop blaming the English. :)

Would have exactly the same order...but I do remember you praising a Youngs Burger (Woodman) from the rooftops fairly recently?

Louisa Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Although the Clock House was never an authentic > boozer. In the 60's it was an off licence and > confectioner, and even in the 70s/80s had > pretentious landlords who liked parking expensive > cars out the front to impress people. Never been a > massive fan of the place. The Wood House is a > different story, that place has a history. > > Louisa. His wife was a bit of a model too......

I was also in Cologne in 2006 and the party atmosphere took a dive as English fans arrived Didn't they win Fans of the Tournament in 2006 and there were minimal arrests and absolutely thousands out there - I'm not sure why you bother going given you seem to hate the english supporters so much? The team certainly hasn't worth being followed since 1998

The question we can't really answer though AM is if things would have changed faster and without as many deaths and lives ruined without people like McGuinness, the IRA, the UDA and Paisley. My suspicion is they would have...

PS most of that proper melting point mixing is among the working classes by the way, not the impeccably liberal hideously white middle class metros

Whose the 'we' Jeremy - practically all these articles feature pictures of pretty average english people with the Cross of StGeorge often at Brexit rallies - the whole inference and tone and narrative is that any form of English nationalism is dangerous, when in reality most of the actual evidence points to England, with its many faults and far from being perfect, as more mixed, tolerant and open society than anywhere else in the UK and Europe. Stop believeing in all the shit the Guardian publishes and the middle class doyens of the EDF repeat ad infinitum. Stats show we have more mixed race marriages; dual heritage kids and a better spread of ethnic groups in different jobs and positions (although still not perfect by any means) than most of Europe; European surveys shows our support for curbs on immigration lower than places like Germany - even post brexit; and anecdotally, out of the big cities, i see far more signs of integration even in provincial England than i do in the capital cities of most of Europe including Edinborough, Dublin and Belfast (Cardiff is bit more cosmopolitan). When people in Belfast & Glasgow stop beating the shit out of each other based on their religious heritage they can maybe start lecturing us english on our dangerous and petty nationalism.

Otta Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > And he was British born. Just like the terrorist > that actually managed to kill an MP (Jo Cox) last > year. Absolutely no difference between the two. I absolutely agree with you. But the lone nutter story is adapted by both left and right when it suits them and dropped when it doesn't, as Wednesday's attack and Jo Cox's murder show.

Defining english nationalism as wanting to go back to 1960 with no proof other than repeating what the guardian (and many remainers) do constantly Wrapping up Brexit with some fear of 'the other' when for example polling shows that just 5% of the population think EU nationals should leave the UK It's really 'liberal' fear & projectionm bought on by Brexit, of what they don't know/understand and have no intention of trying to by mixing with the working class of this country (of all ethnic groups by the way). We may be a small C conservative country but the NF, the BNP have always failed politically and UKIP, by continental standards a pretty mainstream right wing party rather than anything more sinister, are polling about 12& It's 'liberal' knicker, wetting hysteria....

So in summary Scottish, Welsh and Irish nationalism is all a lovely mix of tolerance, univesalism, acceptable national pride and altruism. English nationalism is all terrible. In the real world - the ethnic diversity of England and the mixing of different ethnic groups in terms of marriage, relationships, kids, mixed neighborhoods, workplace and schools is MILES and MILES ahead on anywhere else in the UK and Europe. In the real world - Scotland and NI (and most of Wales) is enormously white and even within those groups Scotland and Northern Ireland's white ethnic populations have huge difficulties in getting along with each other on the basis of whether they are protestant or Catholic- something that ceased to matter in England over a century ago and is laughable insularity Yet still huge numbers of non-English brits and the so called liberal thinkers of the middle classes go on with this utter tripe about illiberal England and nasty English nationalism. Pure prejudice, ironically PS Rah moving to Berlin is an easy shift - try Bavaria or any points East other than Berlin if you want to see how wonderfully liberal the Germans are (google how many asylum refuges have been attacked in Germany too) or try anywhere in Spain, Italy other than the big cities if you want to see assimilation and liberal views on race, good luck finding them

JoeLeg Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > ???? Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > Still waiting for an eulogy for the terrorsist > who > > was shot outside the Houses of Parliament > > yesterday..... > > > You're a twat. That's a totally unneccesary > comment designed purely to make you look good and > put someone else on the wrong side of an argument. > > > Transparent, and pathetic. I genuinely couldn't give a toss what someone I don't know on an internet forum thinks about me

Mick Mac Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > ???? Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > Still waiting for an eulogy for the terrorsist > who > > was shot outside the Houses of Parliament > > yesterday..... > > For MM the praise from political leaders in NI and > the rest of the U.K. And the wider world was > almost unanimous- my comments are similar - Bill > Clinton may attend his funeral and the Queen with > whom he met several times, has written a personal > message of codolence to his family. > > Quids - you are a different person from what I > thought you to be and that is surprising and > disappointing for our friendship Hi Mick, I am sorry I offended you and certainly my post looks more personally directed at you than what was meant as a general point and absolutely would have been better on another thread - probably this one - so apologies. My general point - and one that was annoying maybe even angering me - is that the coverage between yesterday's events and Guinness eulogies in the press and the treatment of yesterday's attacker seemed very disconnected when at the end of the day they both were involved in some kind of terrorism and both targeted innocent people .

Still waiting for an eulogy for the terrorsist who was shot outside the Houses of Parliament yesterday.....

mmmm...you've gone from praising terrorists yesterday to remembering their victims today - a bit hypocritical in my view.

"Water free at the point of use".....what could possibly go wrong.....

I was sure you were on this list Louisa...doesn't the new management know? http://www.thepoke.co.uk/2016/04/12/south-london-pub-barred-list-very-funny/

Whilst not denying the prejudice, discrimination and near apartheid put upon the Catholics of NI by the Unionist Govt tin Ulster and shockingly ignored by the British government prior to The Troubles, I can't help feeling that if there been more people like Hulme and less like McGuinness and Paisley - thousands more people wouldn't have had their lives ended or wrecked. Mick I really think you need to look up the meaning of Genocide up before you use it so loosely too....

I'm increasingly a fan of unvirtue signalling.. ..."anyone who takes the Guardian seriously is a tosser" Thank kind of stuff

Remind me again - what's virtue signalling? "I watch in disbelief as people buy the Sunday Times. What are the values or insights expressed in this newspaper that might be productive to engage with? I fear, as a general rule, none." mmm- interesting and in fact amazing that you know so much and draw such sweeping conclusions on something you don't read?

of course, back in the day the forum actually got on the BBC 6oclock news - it's all been down hill since as we're highlighting a restaurant review in the Telegraph......

I love the objective, non-partisan and rational voice of our own EDF Economist. Jump the shark point on politics on here for me....