James

We were cut up by a huge 4x4 with tinted windows the other day alongside Peckham Rye. When we hooted back the woman made obscene gestures at us. Drawing up alongside her for a heated exchange (I know, we should have ignored her but we were angry) revealed that she was small, white and of middle-class appearance. I have often experienced people driving these cars in a selfish, aggressive way. Cocooned as they are in an expensive, tank-like vehicle that's higher than everyone else, do they think they are superior to rest of us?

Um, I think Draft House and Adventure Bar closed because the former was a located in a dingy, narrow space on two levels with the atmosphere of a walk-in clinic and the latter was, as someone once suggested on here, the sort of bar you'd expect to see on Hollyoaks.

I would be very disappointed if the Old Kent Road route won out. It could indeed benefit from regeneration and improved transport links, but surely we must prioritise plugging gaps in existing infrastructure over regenerating underdeveloped areas? Camberwell especially is crying out for a tube. Where else in London is there such a major hub with hospitals, art colleges etc. so poorly served by public transport? Combine that with the extra interchange possibilities at Peckham Rye and the case is overwhelming. Incidentally, just because Peckham is already a hub doesn't mean it shouldn't have even better connections.

Agree Nigello, the OAPs are the ones who I sympathise with. But I guess this whole debate has been going on forever (it certainly feels like it if you read this forum). Gentrification is nothing new. The patchwork of London has been in flux for decades. My late mother remembered when Peckham really was posh (and I'm talking Rye lane)! When I grew up, Bromley was desirable and East Dulwich anything but. How things change.

The cost of the weekly shop as a percentage of average income has plummeted since the 1950s. The low prices people now demand are putting our farmers into hardship and lead to low nutritional standards, obesity and inhumane meat production methods and/or quality issues. Remember the horse meat scandal? The truth is that those who claim they can only afford the cheapest, nastiest food are almost always prioritising other things. Like the woman I once saw in Iceland with an iPhone 5 in one hand and a pack of battery eggs in the other. No doubt this woman would shudder at the thought of paying ?2.50 (the price of one coffee!) for six organic eggs. M&S are not saints but I for one welcome them here. And I will not shed a tear at the lack of turkey twizzlers on the shelves. This is not snobbery. It's common sense.

Lillyrose, may I add my congratulations too. There are loads of dog lovers round here (myself & partner included) so I will definitely be popping in for a look. For what it's worth I loved the concept of Hope & Greenwood but in reality their stuff was shockingly overpriced so more suited to the big-ticket locations they now have.

Awful place. Looks like the sort of rowdy, scruffy pub you'd expect to find in Romford rather than the heart of Dulwich Village. Hopefully the hotel will be more befitting the location.

For a second, I misread that as "the voice of those whom you resent" Ooops!

I am always amazed when people are surprised to discover that we live in a capitalist country where (shock! horror!) areas go up and down and similarly, businesses succeed and fail. Trying to preserve everything in aspic is akin to Prince Charles' ridiculous tirades about modern architecture. The arguments on here are utterly pointless. We will soon know if Iceland is popular enough to survive on Lordship Lane. People will vote with their feet, and that's all that matters.

Reminds me of all the people who moan when a filthy old pub frequented by skanky old men gets turned into a gastropub. Nine times out of ten it's for the best but people love a moan, don't they?

The older you get, the more terrifying change is

"Foreign" !?

Gave up on Luca's due to repeatedly shambolic, dreadful, rude service. If an indie is good, I wish them all the best. Rather that than a chain any day. But better a decent chain than a rubbish independent. We don't owe anyone our business.

If you're going to privatise trains and run them for profit like a business, your staff should behave like people who work for any other business. I.e. they should be helpful and sympathetic towards complaints. When we pay the highest fares in Europe, I should think so too! In my experience I have found Southern Trains staff to be ill-informed, unhelpful and on occasions, downright rude and incompetent. However I don't think it's their fault. It's symptomatic of bad management from the top downwards.

This is a joke, right?

All I was complaining about was rudeness. And making the point that some people really ought to know better. The fact that people have leapt to twist that into some kind of weird snobbishness says more about them than anoyone else.

Ah yes, the poor middle classes! How they suffer for their artichokes. There are bigger problems in the world. Some delusional people on here should get a grip.

Either you are both extremely thick or just spoiling for an argument, ???? and KK. I suspect the latter!

And when exactly did I say working class people weren't capable of knowing better ?????

Who said I 'let myself be pushed around'? Who said I didn't say (or do) anything at the time?

Bizarre (and sexist) 'man up' comment from KidKruger... how I or anyone else reacts or has reacted to these instances hasn't been mentioned. Is your implication that it is somehow 'unmanly' to be annoyed by people being rude and/or selfish? What a strange world you live in.

Louisa has a point, obviously. Pathetic baiting going on as I'm sure most of you are not so dim as not to understand. In a nutshell: of course, nobody has the right to be rude, whatever their background. And of course, there are rude people from all backgrounds, just as there are nice thoughtful people from all backgrounds. However you can't help being surprised sometimes when people who are clearly quite affluent and privileged behave in blatantly selfish ways. Shouldn't they know better?

Totally agree Louisa. It happens, and it shouldn't.

>>Just a bit more chip on shoulder, cliche ridden nonsense. Actually Jimbo I have seen this happen in front of me a number of times, so I think you're being a bit defensive! Not saying all middle-class mums are like this, but some are.

Got to be honest, I find the smug middle-class mummies of Lordship Lane with their sharp-elbowed sense of entitlement far more annoying. Like for example their habit of unloading their offspring out of a 4x4 into the middle of the road (why not the pavement side, FFS!!!?) It all smacks of "I'm far too important and my time is too precious to give way to anyone else for a second."