skyblue

James alot of current St Anthonys kids come from west of Barry road which is too far from Cabrini and in is the heber, gg, St john's micro catchment area there would be a further squeeze on these schools.

If the permission isn't given the effect will be that kids that would have gone to St Anthonys will get places in other local schools ie goodrich heber goose green fairlawn and kids that may have got in to those schools won't. There are many unfair selection issues re schools some may think that being able to buy your way into a school because you can afford to live near a good school is just is as bad as believing your way in. (There was a roy brookes leaflet through the door today saying that some one wants to buy a house near heber and is willing to pay 575k for a three bed.) and as for private schools where is the fair in that? At least believing your way in is open to the less well off too. There is no easy answer and alot of people do actually believe. As for parking that will be a minority of the minority who drive and it needs to be dealt with. I would imagine that it irritates alot of parents from St Anthonys too. I understand from previous threads that a child at St Anthonys costs the tax payer 10% less than a child at a community school. So secularising these schools will cost. So if planning isn't given what local school will be able to accommodate these kids? Perhaps we should reconvert all those converted school buildings that the council sold off?

Slightly off topic but there was a very interesting programme on bbc1 last night which showed how the teenage brain under goes massive changes and that the last part to mature is the part that deals with risk. Basically teenagers are humans in flux and that those who don't have support systems around them are very vulnerable. Teenagers need youth clubs etc. I believe that is where the 'free school meals for every child in southwark' should be going. Put these allocated food millions into youth facilities.

James many thanks you for your time on this. If I have any other points I will raise it by pm.

Hi James, I should be grateful if you could let me know if you have met with Harris? If so did you raise the coed issue with them. Can you report back generally on the meeting? Have you had the meeting with kingsdale? Have our local councillors any general thoughts as how to tackle the Se22 secondary school issue? Are the minutes from the community council meeting available yet? Many thanks

I've noticed a lot of tagging too - on Sargent's butchers, by the Court Lane entrance to Dulwich park and on a couple of street boards - seems to be the same signature. I have mentioned it to the police who have said that the local safer teams are on to it. Looks like someone in particular wants to be noticed.

Toast, I agree there needs to be a full consultation of local primary school families and present Harris families. There is no point doing anything that is against our community's wishes. In my opinion regardless of the Harris coed issue Southwark needs to engage with Se22 to get to the bottom of our secondary school problem. Also inviting Harris to an se22/rye parents meeting is a way of reaching out to families with young children and making the school more engaged with the community it serves however it may be structured. After a consultation what ever the outcome is the very debate may refocuse local families into putting Harris up there as a choice, and go some way to solve our secondary school problems.

Toast, I think that your idea for a facebook page is excellent as it can easily and quickly demonstrate that there is community backing for a co-ed for SE22, Peckham Rye and Nunhead. What should it be called? 'Educating the Rye' - any other suggestions? Would any one be able to work on it? - I am happy to contribute to the content along with others but some one else would need to do the setting up. Perhaps we could have a link from the Forum if that would be ok with the management? Denmothersmith, it will be really interesting to hear the feedback of what the current Harris families think. Should the next step be for James and Renata to call a joint public meeting at our community centre to discuss the issues which face our local community regarding secondary schools, discuss the stats and try to get to the bottom of why SE22 families are so badly served? It may be helpful if Catherine McDonald could be there too? As Tara higlights in her post of 1st April, Southwark is the second worst council in the country in the allocation of school places in respect of choice, and in Southwark over 77% of the children who failed to be allocated any secondary school place in the first round of admissions came from SE22. Perhaps James and Renata could invite Don Moynihan, (thanks for the suggestion prickle) the CEO of Harris, to attend too and to answer questions? It would be interesting to hear what Harris Federation's view is on a Co-ed. If this suggestion gets support I will bring this post to James and Renatas' attention. One further thought - if families stop moving out of SE22 at the time of secondary school transfer this may finally reduce the number of estate agents on Lordship Lane -Foxton's may even resort to serving tap water...

Thanks Dorothy for pointing out that rather crucial typo! I know that James has arranged a meeting with Harris boys and he has said that he will report back. I have asked that he raise the issue of co-ed with them. I am also aware that Renata is investigating the position. I am sure that together we can have a good go at this - as long as we can take our community with us!

Further point re children who are currently at these Harris single sex schools. Did the parents choose these schools because they are single sex or because there was no co-ed available to them?

This article is shocking and I cannot imagine the effect that this ordeal must have had on these children. So why is it when there is a school in SE22 that this postcode has 77% of all the children from Southwark who where not allocated a school place in the first round? It must be because families in SE22 are not choosing Harris. Why are SE22 families not choosing Harris and instead choosing schools that they can't get into? I know from conversations with other parents at school and on my road that they do not want a single sex school for their children so Harris is not selected. I understand Denmothersmith's point that six years ago it was the families of the girls at Waverley girls who voted against it becoming co-ed. This was in the face of the EDEN's campaign started by families of primary school children around ED and Nunhead who desperately wanted a co-ed. The girls of the parents who did not want a co-ed have now left the school. I believe that a new consultation should take place within the wider ED/Nunhead community asking parents from all the ED/Nunhead schools from nursery to year 6 what they would like the SE22 school to be - it is these children's local school. I know that there may be difficulties but there is every reason why this school could be a Kingsdale/Charter of the East - there could be so much community support for this school. Also an upper and lower school could, as some one has said, ease the year 7 and 8 into the world of secondary it really is on our door step. I am thinking of making a Freedoom of Information request to Southwark to get to the bottom of the 77% figure does anyone have anything that they would like to be put in the request?

Hi James thank you for the reply. How I see it is that SE22 is a waste land for secondary school choice. This is borne out by the stats. I hope that you are able to get further stats from the council as mentioned in both our posts. I do not understand the point re single sex schools 'that if we are going to have them we need broadly the same numbers of places', and why this has to effect (detrimentally in my opinion)SE22 families, more than others in SE post codes. What ED needs is a Co-ed. The fact that so many children in SE22 did not get any place at all as a percentage of Southwark's total shows that these families are not choosing the local SE22 school which is Harris; and why is this? Because these schools are single sex. So the SE22 families apply for schools they just can't get into. I note that the point was made that the girl's school, when it was Waverley, voted overwhelmingly to stay girls only. That vote was by parents six years ago. These children are no longer there. A consultation on admissions for Harris needs to include the wider community to include all parents at local primary schools so it can reflect the demographics of the area now. As has been said before on this forum, the school could be split to lower and upper and sixth form. There is an SE22 Charter and Kingsdale waiting to happen at Harris and parents will support it. I have raised it with friends today in the school playground who are put off from applying to Harris schools for their children because they are single sex. | also know families on our road who did not but Harris down as a choice for this reason.

Msgee Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > there were a lot of parents in Nunhead and ED > pushing for a co-ed on the Waverley site years > ago, before Harris Boys was built, but their > requests were denied. I don't know why this > decision was made, but I know that it disappointed > many people at the time who really just wanted a > local co-ed. > > Perhaps someone with a better memory than me can > give a summary of the reasons to have two single > sex schools instead? Hi what I have gleaned is that at the time of the campaign for a new school in SE22 there was a demand by local parents for a co-ed. Waverley Girls School was resistant to a change to co-ed so Harris was set up as a boys only. Subsequently Harris has taken over the girls school. Therefore there is no reason why a co-ed can't now happen and families get a decent choice. The answer to SE22's school issues are on its doorstep. Any one else interested in a campaign?

James Barber Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Hi skyblue, > My perspective. > It seems at best bizarre that some secondary > schools in Southwark are taking Lewisham kids who > are travelling past Southwark kids who've not been > allocated places in Southwark secondary schools. > Yet at the same time Southwark kids are being > offered the places Lewisham kids didn't want in > Lewisham. > > Charter School catchment criteria appears doctored > by not accepting the pedestrian cut throughs of > Wanley Road or Greendale to Blanchedowne. > Kingsdale criteria works against some extremely > local kids. > > These schools are now so well accepted that I > would hope they could open up more to local kids. > Which is why my eard colleagues Cllr Jonathan > Mitchell, Rosie Shimell and myself have arranged a > visit to the Harris East Dulwich Boys Academy and > are in the throse of arranging a visit to > Kingsdale. James thank you for arranging these visits. Please can you let me know what happens. Could you please raise the issue of co-ed for Harris. If it changed I am sure that local SE22 families would start to see this school as a proper option. Further you have said that 34 out of the 44 children in Southwark who did not get any school in the first round came from SE22 that is 77%! To my knowledge Harris is the only school in SE22 - the answer to SE22's problems is on its door step -can you raise with Harris that there is a demand for a co-ed and that the historical reasons why it was not co-ed have changed .i.e. that Harris has now taken over the girls school which was resistant to being a co-ed with the then new boys. Can we think about the effect of the bulge years now on secondaries? Could Kingsdale expand? Many thanks

and I would further like to say that in 3 years of passing Barry House every day, when these families are lining up to be sent off on coaches into the unknown, that I have experienced nothing but politeness as I walk by on my way to another day of unappreciated freedom.

I have never experienced any negative encounters from the people staying at the church in all the time I have lived in East Dulwich. Can you begin to imagine how difficult thier lives must be and what stories they must have to tell?

77% of all Southwark children who weren't allocated ANY secondary school place in the first round of allocations live in SE22. Something really does need to be done about admissions policies for our children -this is a very serious issue.

James, thanks for the stats. I note that out of 44 Southwark children who did not get any school at all in the first round, 34 of these children came from SE22. That is 77%. I would be very interested to know how many children there were in SE22 who applied for Secondary transfer, and how many of these got their first choice second choice etc and what schools they are going to? This figure of 77% shows that there is a major issue facing SE22 children in that the nearest co-ed schools have policies that prevent these children accessing them. Charter is too far, Kingsdale is a lottery with an NW6 child having as much chance of securing a place as an SE22 child. Haberdashers is simply too far etc etc. I know I am a bore but I do believe that if Harris became a co-ed this would help the position. Many families need co-eds. If Harris was co-ed it would provide a proper 'choice' rather than an illusion of choice to these families and to those of Nunhead and Camberwell too. Harris would be put on the list rather than unobtainable schools where SE22 children have no hope of securing a place. There is no reason why Harris could not become the Charter/Kingsdale of the east. As for no need for a new school what about the bulge years?

really interesting article. So what about the option of expanding our local co-ed schools - I would be interested to hear what the outcome of this discussion within the powers that be is.

Just noticed in Se22 magazine that the next Dulwich Community Council meeting is at 7pm 28th April at the community centre Darrell Road. One of the items for the agenda is primary and secondary school places and another is the future of the East Dulwich Hospital. Annoyingly it is the week we are on holiday but I will be interested to hear what happens.

Fuschia yes I agree with you completely about a coordiated set of admission policies but if Labour didn't do it during 13 years it is never going to happen during the next 4. I want a decent co-ed school in yes 'the area' i.e. community in which I live to sent my kids to. Should that only be open to some or to the wealthy? Is the expansion of the established co-eds being discussed? The Southwark stats say it all really. When I was a child everyone in our class went to the same secondary no forms, no choice, no preference and it wasn't fancy. Happy days. I see from SE22 magazine that the local community meeting for East Dulwich is on 28th April. We are on holiday so I can't go but this issue needs to be raised there. Will be at the next one.

Denmothersmith I am really pleased for you. I hope that every thing turns out well for you and your son - I have a feeling it will.

Hi James could you have a look at the secondary school threads in the family room and let us have your thoughts. Thanks

The number of children needing places in our area is going to increase over the coming years not decrease. There is no co-ed school that my children will stand a realistic chance of getting into. Absolutely agree that the admission policies must be changed too. I believe it should be lottery within a defined catchment for all schools. So no plus points for houses near to schools.

Hi all parents and carers who use this forum. You may have seen the various threads on this forum relating to secondary school admissions and thought that doesn't concern our family as you have may have just found out that you are pregnant or have a new born or your child has just started primary school and you think that things are bound to change by the time it gets to us. If we all don't do something nothing will ever change and the same thing will happen year after year to the children who live in East Dulwich, Camberwell and Nunhead. On the day that school allocations came out 200 Southwark children where not given any of the 6 schools that they put down as 'choices' and 40 children had no school what so ever. We are sadly lacking a good co-ed secondary school- Charter's catchment is tiny and Kingsdale is a lottery open to all of London. I want to send my son and daughter to a local co-ed. I want my kids to go to school in the community that we live in. I don't want them to be teenagers spending hours everyday on buses. I would really would dearly like Harris to become a co-ed and put right the opportunity that was missed 5 years ago. Also there are the stirrings of a campaign for a 'free' school but for it there has to be support from local families. I have major misgivings about 'free' schools but there is at least 4 more years of this policy so what option does our local community have to create a new school? As long as it is non selective and represents the local community of East Dulwich, Camberwell and Nunhead then it has to be better than nothing. (Kingsdale and Charter could even take it under their wing and later make it part of a new federation of schools?) I urge you to start thinking about this issue now not when your child is in year 5 or 6. Collectively we need to ask our locally elected representatives for leadership on this very important issue. We need another co-ed in this area of South London. Do our local elected reps agree? Renata and James please can you show your support and leadership!