HeadNun

See above

Nowhere have I said that what is happening in Palestine is right and nowhere have I denied what is happening. You're missing my point. And no, not because they are Muslims. I studied Islam at uni (and Judaism), was raised in my early years in a Muslim country (very happily), have Muslim friends, so don't even try going there... But one kind of apartheid is no worse than another and if you're inclined to compare and rate them against eachother, then you're the one who needs to have a think about whether race has anything to do with it.

Mal, I would never, ever go on a march like this. Not in a million years. Firstly, I don't want to be on a march where there is one single Hamas / Jihad sympathiser, or an ignorant, left wing student wearing a keffiyeh, who's just jumped on a righteous bandwagon. I don't want to go on a march, the very idea of which, might scare the living daylights of a Jewish child who suffers from generational trauma and doesn't understand why everyone suddenly hates them (I know there are Jews on these marches too). It is my opinion that many people go on marches to feel better about themselves and boost their own saviour complex. A lot of them are angry about other things and these marches just provide a channel for that anger. Maybe I'm wrong. I prefer to stay at home, dig out my history books and reflect on how these situations came to be. I've seen the aftermath of ethnic cleansing, famine, abject poverty, disease, the fallout from violent inter-tribal clashes. One thing I've learnt is that there is nothing I can do about it, other than to be grateful. As for apartheid in SA, yes I would have marched against that. But it was a completely different situation.

I think Mal is saying that I'm the one doing the mocking. I just think that picking a side with something like this is not only futile, but displays some level of privileged, Western grandiosity, I'm afraid. It's very easy to pick a 'right side of history' when it really doesn't directly affect you, and brush aside all the ugly, gnarly undercurrents that come with any subject like this. People die in war and genocide all the time, and have done for time immemorial. I just don't understand why white, middle class Londoners choose to identify with the Palestinian struggle over any other.

Yes, Chick, I know my history and can read the news. I also know the true definition of genocide and this isn't it. And at no point have I said that it's right that thousands of Palestinians have lost their lives in Gaza. But I'd like to know if, by calling for a ceasefire, you mean just Israel laying down its arms. Or are you also campaigning for an end to Hamas? Because it seems to be getting off pretty lightly in this thread. Are you expecting Hamas to stop its ethnic cleansing, or is that justified because the Israelis have oppressed the Palestinians? Also, I'm very interested to know how you measure one type of apartheid against another and how you can possibly say, in all good faith, that what's happening in the Middle East is 'worse' than South Africa. That's some of the most ignorant, insulting, ill-informed, overly simplistic, frankly racist nonsense I think I've ever heard. You talked about whataboutery earlier on. What is your statement, if not that? It ignores all the nuance, all the complex history and frankly makes a mockery of the whole argument.

Israel absolutely does not depend on UK support. The only countries that matter are the US and Middle Eastern nations. It doesn't even care what the UN says. Were you all marching when we were arming the Saudis in the Yemen? When we pulled out of Afghanistan, when the recent war broke out in Sudan, when we stood by and let Assad massacre his own people? I keep asking myself why people seem to care more about Palestine-Israel than any other conflict and I keep coming back to the same reason: vain, virtue-signalling. It's such a populist subject and something that British 'liberals' love piling in on to somehow boost their own sense of importance. Soz. And the fact that you said that Israel depends on Western support, in relation to a vote for a ceasefire, betrays what most of you think a ceasefire would entail: Israel downing weapons. Let's be honest here. What you're actually calling for is for Israel to let Hamas off the hook, walk away and forget about the massacre, including the pregnant woman who was disembowelled, forced to watch her foetus be killed and then herself murdered. That's what you're calling for.

The vote was token. Even Stella Creasy said that no one in the Middle East gives a fig what the Labour Party thinks. It won't make the slightest bit of difference, so why does it matter? It's like the shadow cabinet of Lichtenstein voting against the Americans invading Afghanistan, in pursuit of Al Qaeda.

Were there chants against Hamas too? Hezbollah, Iran?

What I don't understand is what are these marchers actually hoping for by marching? And how can innocent Palestinians be helped by it? Redpost is right - they're caught in the crossfire of a proxy war. That's why the US and UK has been so vocal in their support of Israel, so that Israel can do the dirty job of taking Hamas out, and we don't have to. Hopefully that way, the war stays regional and doesn't escalate. Everyone knows Israel won't succeed in destroying Hamas, but the message has to be sent. This is Iran flexing her muscles and the west responding. Of course it's wrong - the whole thing is wrong. Terrorism is wrong, apartheid is wrong, illegal settlements in the West Bank are wrong, but it's naive to think that any nation would stand by and allow the brutality of October 7th to pass without retaliation. Israel will always argue that Gaza voted Hamas in (even tho the last election was in 2006) and that Gaza brought this on itself. This is geopolitics at its most complex and marching is just a performative, simplistic response to a deeply nuanced situation. It achieves only more unrest and division. I just don't get this 'I'm marching for peace'. Peace from whom? Does anyone here really believe that Hamas is going to suddenly have a crisis of conscience, down its weapons and walk away from this conflict? Hamas engineered this - it knew Israel would invade and pulverise Gaza. You might say that Israel should have taken the moral high-ground (and I believe there probably was a deal brokered by the Qataris to exchange the hostages before the retaliation begun, but Israel walked away from it) but in truth, neither Bibi not Hamas wants peace and neither is prepared to take the moral high-ground for the sake of the Palestinians. I just don't get this 'I'm marching for peace'. Peace from whom? Does anyone here really believe that Hamas is going to suddenly have a crisis of conscience, down its weapons and walk away from this conflict? Hamas engineered this - it knew Israel would invade and pulverise Gaza. You might say that Israel should have taken the moral high-ground (and I believe there probably was a deal brokered by the Qataris to exchange the hostages before the retaliation begun, but Israel walked away from it) but in truth, neither Bibi nor Hamas wants peace and neither is prepared to take the moral high-ground for the sake of the Palestinians.

Worth a watch / listen

Another recommendation for Leon here. Great communications, reliable, reasonable and a lovely chap. Thanks Leon, I'll definitely be in touch again if I need anything electrical doing. 07707 925039

While I understand you didn't mean to make a direct comparison, it was clumsy. The Sunday Times and C4 Dispatches wouldn't have run the story without the utmost confidence that it would hold up in court. They have too much to lose reputationally and financially, as Brand is lawyered up to the teeth and has been over the years that his victims have tried to complain to his camp. The Depp-Heard case is different - it wasn't a newspaper expose that defamed him, it was a piece Heard wrote about being a domestic abuse survivor, which is why Depp sued and won, his reputation somewhat restored. If Brand is innocent then he'll win a libel case against the Times / C4 - if he doesn't sue, he's admitting his own guilt. As a previous producer of Dispatches and Panorama, I don't think the ex controller of the BBC would have nailed her colours to the mast by contributing to the programme unless she was confident the allegations being made were true. This story wasn't run because bad news sells, it was about holding high-powered celebrities to account for their abuses of power and holding media outlets to account for their condonation of those celebrities, at the expense of the women who work for them.

There are very good reasons why those women talked to the press and the not the police. And likening rape and sexual assault to a thought crime is frankly more than icky... it's outrageously insulting. The press has always exposed stories that are in the public interest - I don't know why everyone is so up in arms about this (Harvey Weinstein anyone?) - and it wouldn't have run with this without a cast iron guarantee from legal that evidence gathered was robust. As for the courts - just because you can't prove something didn't happen, doesn't mean it didn't. Ask anyone in the industry who's met him and you'll likely hear plenty more similar stories.

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Thanks Vladi, yes my initial post was rather vague - I’ve learnt a lot about cars and used cars since then! And I won’t be getting one on Gumtree. Some great sale rooms have been recommended here, but they’re all above my price range. I’m looking for something low mileage (of course) and approx 10 - 14 years old. Thinking either a Ford Fiesta, Honda Jazz or Skoda Fabia. I’ll use it a bit in town, but I’m mainly planning to use it for distance driving a few times a year. So I need something comfortable. Budget probably 6.5k max. Places like Lancers don’t really have cars for that little, so I’ll have to go to a smaller dealer.

I'm planning to buy my first ever car and am considering Gumtree. I know nothing about cars and wonder if anyone can give me any advice about buying a car privately, checking it's not stolen and what to look out for. Many thanks, HN

For anyone genuinely interested in gender dysphoria in children, there's an excellent podcast. It even has a contribution from Polly Carmichael, which I think is incredible given how silent she's been in this whole debate. It's balanced, dispassionate and informative.

Wow, the CRP area looks as if it's going to be chocca

Bic Basher, obviously there’s a conflict of views here. If you want it to be solved, how do you suggest that happens? If discourse isn’t the way, what is?

Hey Cazzlesuk, I completely agree about the loos - the self-contained cubicles with sinks work well for everyone and don't compromise women's safety (I hope). However in schools I think it's important for girls and young women to have a safe place they can commune, so I believe loos there should stay single sex, with separate provisions for trans kids (though I know that some trans people might be unhappy about this). When it comes to sport, there can be no question that people born male have and retain a physical advantage, which can only in part be mitigated by hormones. As for reporting crime stats and pay issues, I agree that that absolutely has to be categorised the sex someone was born. Otherwise, women's rights and protections will go backwards even further. But I do worry that, even if we come up with solutions to all these problems, eg separate spaces, wards categories, prison wings etc, that trans lobbyists will still insist that it's transphobic not to admit trans women into the same spaces that are used by women. A classic example is the backlash over JK Rowling's refuge, which is exclusively for natal women.

I challenge anyone to show me what I’ve written that is trolling. And is it not also disrespectful not to engage with other people’s views? Your answer sadly underlines the whole problem with this debate - that only one side is willing or able to have a calm discussion about it. That’s why I fear we’ll never make progress. It’s interesting that you have no views on gender dysphoria in children, their welfare, and the safeguarding of women and girls.

It’s interesting that, of everything I wrote, neither Alec nor Bic Basher challenged or discussed any part of it, other than to call me phobic and pick me up on accidentally misgendering someone. Perhaps that’s because I have a point? Why is it that the people who are supposedly advocating for trans people never seem able to have a conversation about the finer details, but only seem able to get angry and abusive? How does that help trans people?

What have I said in my post that is in any way transphobic, bigoted, intolerant or hateful?

Yes I should have said ‘she’ I normally do refer to her as she / her, I just wasn’t concentrating. I usually always use people’s preferred pronouns, this occasion was an oversight. It’s a very simple answer: there should be separate facilities for trans people, and separate sports categories too. Unfortunately that won’t solve the problem. And I’m afraid to say that the person in question is male - she was born male and has a penis. We can’t identify our way out of science, nor can we change science with semantics