Earl Aelfheah

So what’s your point? Are you suggesting that bicycles should be regulated as if they are electric mopeds / illegal e-bikes?

Still avoiding answering the question. You say a push bike and a 70mph electric motor driven bike are the same, so do you think they should be regulated in the same way? Because if not, and if you don’t agree with my calls for mod kits to be banned and existing rules to be more strictly enforced, I’ve no idea what your point is.

They are illegal mopeds. This is a matter of legal fact, not opinion. Nope, you’re just refusing to answer a straightforward question

So just to be clear @rockets (let’s pretend you haven’t deliberately ignored a very simple question several times and genuinely struggle with comprehension).. in a discussion about regulating bicycles, after you suggest illegal mopeds that travel at 70mph and push bikes are the same ‘walks like a duck etc’, I asked the question: “Are you're seriously suggesting that a push bike is the same as an electric moped capable of travelling at 70 mph, and that they should be regulated in the same way?” You responded: “A pushbike with an electric motor that takes it to 70mph is still a pushbike - it's just a pushbike with an electric motor. Do you agree or not?” (Great bit of deflection) Were you suggesting that they are the same, but not that they should be regulated in the same way? Because it doesn’t read like that. I answered your question btw, and repeated my own several times. And as usual you ran away from it and then feigned incomprehension. We see what you’re doing. The corollary of your argument (that you think the two are in the same category), is that they should be regulated in the same way. You refuse to answer a straightforward question, because if the answer is no, they shouldn’t be treated the same, it exposes the false equivalence you have drawn. If it’s yes, then it implies regulation of push bikes in ways you understand to be ridiculous.

A pushbike with an electric motor that takes it to 70mph is still a pushbike - it's just a pushbike with an electric motor. Do you agree or not?

Earl - you're meandering and losing me again.....what I was arguing about was that push bikes with an electric conversion kit are not identified as mopeds by those pedestrians that they are causing huge problems for Nope you’re try trying to deflect, by ducking a question long enough that you can pretend it’s related to something else you’ve said since it was asked. You very clearly stated that a moped capable of travelling at 70mph was still a bicycle and strongly implied that they should therefore be regulated in the same way. If you’re saying that they shouldn’t be treated the same, then what exactly are you arguing for? And we’re talking about your comparison between a moped and a bicycle to be clear.

Oh that old tactic. Repeatedly ducking the question and then pretending you don’t you don’t understand 🙄

This isn't the argument being made by @Rockets though; He'd not suggested that pedal assist e-bikes and illegal mopeds should be treated the same. He has argued that illegal mopeds and push bikes should be treated the same. He has ducked the question of what that means for regulation (clearly we know what it would mean, which is why he's walking the argument right up to the line and then refusing to take it the extra millimetre to it's logical conclusion).

I've answered that question already. The specific example you gave, of a throttle driven bike able to travel at 70mph, is not a bicycle (not my opinion, but a legal fact). And yet it's notable that you still haven't answered. You've repeatedly claimed that a motorbike and a bicycle should be placed in the same vehicle class. The corollary of that argument is that they should be regulated in the same way; which would mean all bicycles would have to be registered and taxed, you would require a valid driving licence to ride one, would have to wear a motorcycle helmet that meets British safety standards and insure your bicycle. If this isn't your argument, then please do elaborate.

Again you duck the question. You say that bicycles and motorbikes are the same. So I assume you're arguing that they should be regulated in the same way?

Exactly. A bike with an electric motor and a throttle that can travel at 70mph is very clearly classed as a moped or motorcycle. Riding an electric bike: the rules - GOV.UK The fact that the motor is electric makes no difference. So @Rockets is arguing that bicycles should be treated the same as motorbikes.

I wasn't aiming that at you - I'm aware that's not what you were saying. I was clarifying Rockets position. He's confirmed that he considers a e-moped capable of doing 70mph to be the same as a push bike (bizarrely) Obviously I don't agree, and neither does the law. Because it's clearly ridiculous. But you didn't answer the second part of my question. Are you're suggesting that a push bike should be regulated in the same way as a moped / motorbike capable of travelling at 70 mph?

It doesn't 'walk like a duck' though does it. A push bike doesn't have a throttle and cannot travel at 70mph powered by a motor. Are you're seriously suggesting that a push bike is the same as a electric moped capable of travelling at 70 mph, and that they should be regulated in the same way? So for bicycles to have the same regulations applied as motorbikes?

A vehicle has hit an object on the pavement. A heavy / high powered vehicle, that shouldn’t be on the pavement. It’s applied enough force to pull up a concrete block The block hasn’t subsided and no one seriously believes that it has. None of which we shouldn’t be concerned about Well that’s ok then. 🙄 The rush of those ‘concerned’ by dangerous driving, to justify / minimise a high powered vehicle being on the pavement, or (ridiculously) insinuating a cyclist or pedestrian might be to ‘blame’, is just beyond ridiculous.

😆 Are you actually a made up character / parody account?

I accept that it's an assumption, but a fairly water tight one no? I mean that block has almost certainly been damaged by a motor vehicle that had crossed on to the pavement.

A lot of strawman stuff here. Regardless of the circumstances, it would have taken a lot of force to move that concrete post. This kind of regular damage to property and the public realm isn't great. For one thing, it costs taxpayers a lot of money. But also, a high powered vehicle, applying massive force to a concrete block that's located on a pavement, is dangerous under almost any circumstances. On a different (but related) topic... This report, published last year, makes fairly grim reading. Year on year increases in hit and runs in London. Over 300 in Southwark alone. Driving off after hitting someone is (as the title suggests) an escalating crisis Hit and run the escalating crisis on London roads - January 2024 Caroline Russell Report.pdf

It doesn't 'walk like a duck' though does it. A push bike doesn't have a throttle and cannot travel at 70mph powered by a motor.

It's you that is trying to conflate a 70mph e-moped with a push bike. You'd be much better off calling for regulation of those mod kits (as I already did above), and stricter enforcement of existing laws to ensure vehicles are road legal. I'm not sure how bringing in additional laws for push bikes has any impact on illegal e-mopeds (in fact I do, it has none). But clearly not working....which leads us back to my point on the need for tighter legislation, increased policing or limitations of cycle use. This is so weird. I've pointed out that the laws you are calling for already exist in the scenario you describe, they're just not enforced, and you agree, then call for tighter legislation. It's a problem of enforcement, extra laws on top of ones which are already unenforced achieves nothing. And then you call for 'limitations of cycle use'... Which I think really gets to the nub of what you want.

Push bikes, e-bikes and e-mopeds are categorised and regulated differently yes. Lime bikes are licensed, insured, have a number plates, and in the scenarios you describe, are breaking existing laws. So I'm not sure whether extra laws would really make a difference. Seems to be an issue of enforcement. It is an anecdote. Lime bikes are different from push bikes in the scenarios that you describe, because your proposed fix - the additional regulations you're calling for - already apply to them. Which is kind of relevant and more than a little ironic. I find it strange (although not really, fully understanding your agenda) how you think that an illegal electric moped (the type used extensively by delivery companies) is the same as a push bike?

I am not a 'highly motivated self starter' as people like to say in job interviews. I need the office to ensure I actually focus / get some work done. Otherwise I spend too much time arguing with Rockets on the forum 😉

We do need better enforcement. Especially around commercial e-bikes and illegal e scooters / mopeds. …and regularly speeding and distracted motorists for that matter.

Your anecdote above seems to involve primarily Lime bikes, and delivery scooters. The former are licensed and insured, have a number plate, and in the scenarios your describe are breaking existing laws. The latter are probably illegal - most of the electric scooters used for deliveries are, and yet companies like Uber Eats etc, seem to turn a blind eye. So how are calls for new laws relevant, or helpful? What you're describing is an issue of enforcement. In both cases, the police are already empowered to do something about the situations you describe, they just fail to do so very effectively.

Thames water digging up the same bit of road near junction of Lordship Lane and Heber for (I think) the third time?! I don’t get why they can’t fix it once.

People often speed on this road and often fail to stop at the zebra crossing. Better enforcement needed