Earl Aelfheah

This claim doesn't get any truer the more you repeat it. I said that in the "Dulwich Review Consultation Report (August 2021) 55 per cent supported the aims set out in its ‘Streets for People’ initiative". That's not aggressive. It's a fact. You repeatedly misrepresent that comment when challenged on your numerous, objectively false and misleading claims... a little ironic. Cut through all the usual nonsense and you're just relentlessly moaning about getting fined from being in a bus lane when you shouldn't have been, whether that's driving in it (as the appeal letter says), or driving across it, as you say. Neither change the fact that you were correctly issued with a fine and you've been throwing a very long, slow, public tantrum about it over many months now.

I don’t really care how long he was in the bus lane. There is no reason to be in it. Yes, I’ll admit I’m a little skeptical of Rockets claims on this forum as he has repeatedly made statements that are objectively untrue in the past; Often doubling down or deflecting when caught out. He also spent a long time ducking the question of whether he’d actually been fined (you implied the suggestion was outrageous / a personal attack at the time). It is not easy to ‘clip’ the bus lane making that turn - not without clipping the curb, and the appeal notification he posted says that he was driving along the bus lane - is that not what happened? So use your own judgment / form your own opinion. But I actually think it’s irrelevant. If you drive across a clearly marked bus lane, there is a good chance you’ll be fined. Just drive with more care. And if you have made an error, maybe chalk it down to experience / take it on the chin. No one, not even Rockets is suggesting that the fine was issued in error, or that he didn’t break the rules, or that the rules aren’t clear. So it really comes down to being annoyed. Which is fine, but it was a year ago! We’ve heard about it repeatedly across multiple threads. That’s relentless.

You think that we should just drive in the bus lanes? And then complain that it's 'unfair' if you get fined? Sounds like childish entitlement to me.

According to the appeal outcome you shared, they upheld your fine on the grounds that: “…you must not enter the bus lane too soon and drive along it before reaching the turning.” [my emphasis in bold] Is that not what happened then? Because it certainly suggests you were caught driving in a bus lane 🤔 No one would disagree with this. If you're fined incorrectly, you should absolutely challenge it. Conversely, where an individual drives in a clearly marked bus lane and gets fined accordingly, they should probably take it on the chin.

You get caught driving in a bus lane you shouldn't have been in, spend a year moaning about it across multiple threads, and if anyone suggests it’s turned into whiny nonsense and is boring af they must secretly work for the council. Got it 🤣🤣

What’s a bit off? You got a fine for driving in a bus lane, when you shouldn’t have been driving in a bus lane. Suck it up. What is a bit off, is winging about it across multiple threads for close to a year.

Were you unaware that driving in the bus lane might result in a fine? I doubt it. Were you unaware that you were in the bus lane? Again, seems unlikely. Do you think that the use of FOI requests to get hold of confidential internal guidance to staff dealing with the bulk processing of appeals, in order to work out where you may be able to get away with breaking the rules, suggests someone being caught out just trying to follow the rules? No. You’re not fighting the good fight, you’re throwing a very public slow motion tantrum because you got a fine.

To be clear, there is no difference in the rules as they apply to bus lanes. TfL will fine you if you're in one when you shouldn't be, in line with the guidance in the Highway Code and the signage that is on the road. Most people don't appeal the fine they receive and it's quite clear that TfL don't consider it acceptable to be in a bus lane for 20m before turning. Their website states: Their internal, confidential, guidance to staff bulk processing thousands of appeals, obviously involves some decisions about which cases are worth pursuing under a challenge, especially as they might ultimately end up having to take them to court with all the time and money associated with that. You’re conflating what is permitted, with what you might be able to get away with. It completely exposes First Mates argument that you are being inadvertently caught out just trying to follow the rules. All this noise and bluster is so, so tedious. The bottom line is that the bus lane is well marked and signed, it's an easy turn into a one way street. There is no reason to be in the bus lane and all Southwark have done is appropriately enforce what are clear rules. Maybe accept your error and take it on the chin like a grown up.

Not included in the figures I provided, which are for the most recent year reported

Rocket’s complaint isn’t that the rules weren’t properly applied as they exist; No, the bus lane is well marked and signed, it's an easy turn into a one way street. There is no reason to be in the bus lane. All Southwark are doing is enforcing clear rules. The use of FOI requests to test how far you can push the rules and, whilst not avoid an initial fine, perhaps get it dropped later - suggests that one is not looking to abide by the rules, but to get away with breaking them. That does speak to motivation.

Again, the ‘guidance’ for fines is not different. You’re conflating what the rules are, with what you might be able to get away with on appeal, after breaking them. You seem to think the two are the same and it says a lot imo about motivation. If you’re unclear, read t what it says in the Highway Code, the public guidance from TfL and Southwark… read the signs. You seem to think that whether or not you comply should be based on a confidential internal note to staff on bulk processing of appeal decisions, obtained through FOI. In other words, you’re not interested following the rules, but in breaking them and avoiding consequences. Well ok, but don’t cry about it and claim it’s unjust when you don’t manage to slip through your loophole.

Southwark cancelled over 23,000 PCNs on appeal last year. So clearly it is not the case they have a computer says no approach. The difference is in how two organisations operating on entirely different scales, bulk process appeals. The footage was reviewed and his appeal declined. Those are the facts. You seem to be assuming that the decision was a wrong one, but based on what? The fact that Rockets is annoyed and has gone on about it for months? It sounds like he drove into a clearly marked bus lane and got caught.

Again, Rockets hasn’t actually talked about what the rules allow, but how far you might be able to break them and get away with it - and treats those things as though they’re the same. So what might one reasonably infer about motivation?

He insists his fine is unfair, not because of unclear signage, or any misunderstanding of the rules, but based of what he might have otherwise got away with on appeal had he been dealing with TfL. Well he wasn’t dealing with TfL. Rockets hasn’t actually talked about what the rules allow, but how far you might be able to break them - and treats those things as though they’re the same. And it is a fact that he’s been moaning about this for nearly a year now, across multiple threads. It’s beyond boring.

Oh, he wasn’t caught in a bus lane? What was he fined for then? 🤔 Helpfully, Rockets has told us, posting the response to his appeal: It’s just a year long tantrum across multiple threads. It’s embarrassing.

You drove into a clearly marked bus lane and got caught. You’re not Nelson Mandela ffs 🤣

Omg. Get over it. It was a year ago and your appeal was rejected. Take some responsibility

😭 Were you cutting up the inside of another vehicle by chance?

I can’t bear the media “is this racist comment racist” angle taken to reporting it. I feel like she’s a useful out rider for Farage to test how far they can take their rhetoric - it’s not the first time she’s said things that cross over the line. Overt racism is becoming far more commonplace and it’s deeply concerning.

New Palace x Nike space opening in Walworth - indoor skatepark, football cage, work and exhibit space, and shop

TfL will fine you if your car enters a bus lane exactly as Southwark do. Read the Highway Code if you’re unsure about the rules on bus lanes, or the signage, or the public guidance issued by both Southwark and TfL. It’s all pretty clear.

The fines are there to deter people from driving in bus lanes. That bus lane is clearly marked, clearly signed, it's an easy turn into a one way street. There is no reason to be in the bus lane. Southwark are enforcing clear rules. When you cut through all the noise, the months of moaning. All you've really got is a refusal to admit an error and take the fine on the chin. It's also notable that you've never challenged the suggestion you may have been undertaking slow moving or stationary vehicles (which is the main reason for people getting caught in that bus lane - otherwise you're just making the turn more difficult by coming over early).

Exactly. That bus lane is clearly marked, clearly signed, it's an easy turn into a one way street. There is no reason to be in the bus lane. All Southwark are doing is enforcing clear rules. Yeh, it's annoying to be fined, but what is it people think is 'unfair'?

On appeal. If you enter a bus lane before turning left you will be issued with a fine. Both TfL rules and the highway code are clear that you are not allow you to enter a bus lane when turning left unless there is an arrow and broken white lines indicating that you can. The internal guidance TfL follow in relation to managing appeals is not 'their rules on when you can use a bus lane'. All public authorities will take a view on how much time and money they're willing to put in to pursuing enforcement action. This bus lane isn't even TfL operated, so how is any of it relevant? It is all just the usual deflection and nonsense. If Rockets wants to discuss whether it was unfair, then he can share the photos.

@ianr - that's interesting. It does indeed suggest that TfLs internal guidance on dealing with appeals is to give 20 metres of grace. This does not amount to what was originally claimed however - that TfL allow people to drive in bus lanes when turning left - you can read the signs, their guidance to drivers on their website and the relevant rules in the highway code. There is a big difference from the rules in place and the circumstances under which a public body decides it's worth the time and cost of pursuing an appeal (and possibly legal action) against a traffic offender. The document appears to have been obtained through a freedom of information request on internal procedures, by people looking for loopholes for their offending. There is an easier way to avoid having to pay out, and that's just to follow the rules in the first place. To be clear, you are not allowed to enter a bus lane, even to turn left except where there is an arrow and a dotted line indicating that you can. Drive in a bus lane and you will still be issued a ticket. And of course, the bus lane in question is operated by Southwark, not TfL - so it's kind of irrelevant. @Rockets You can blank out your car in the pictures. You've chosen to spend a year complaining across multiple threads about how unfair the enforcement of that bus lane is, and have finally admitted that you're really talking about an incidence where you got caught yourself. Why not share the evidence, so that people can judge that themselves? I don't - the road markings and signage are clear. The turn into Overhill is easy, there is no reason at all to enter the bus before turning (it actually makes the turn more difficult). So in what sense is it a 'trap'?